"The Online games are not fair anymore"

[AlunB]

Here's the problem, PRO POKER PLAYERS AND THEIR EGO'S.

Just like any industry, poker has its inside secrets, the more of them you know the more successful you could potentially be.

If you saw a few car salesman having a drink one night you'd probably hear them talking about some lil trick they have which got them an extra monkey off Mrs COllins when she bought her new VW Golf, perfected over time this lil trick of the trade has proved pretty successful at getting a slightly better price and a lil more commission. They aren't ripping her off, its the job, get the best price you can get for the car. Mrs Collins is nonethewiser and enjoying her new golf. If she ever heard this conversation she'd probably feel like a bit of a mug, she never really stood a chance of getting the lowest possible price against this guy and all his experience and lil tricks. Under no circumstances does this make her a mug.

SO what you will NOT see happening is the car dealers finding a local forum where most of their customers will see and talking about the techniques they use to get a better price for their cars, nor will they be making training videos that anyone in the world get get hold off virtually for free, neither will they be found openly bragging in front of their customers about it. (There may well be a car salesman forum before anyone brings one up, but i imagine not one that is often frequented by thier customers)

The ugly reality of poker is that it has a few ugly parts to it, as does everything. In fact poker's part's aren;t even really that ugly...they just don't look so good, none of them are immoral, against the spirit of the game par se or even remotely out of line, but the perception they create by being public knowledge is highly toxic. SO WHY THE FUCK DID EVERYONE MAKE THEM PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE.

I'll tell you why, stupid kids with big ego's thinking that sharing all the inside secrets of the game to make themselves sound really clever would be a good idea, and it's nowadays its gotten ridiculously out of hand. Now we have training sites that basically give stuff away (I must have watched 200+ training videos lifetime and never paid a penny in subscription to any of them) articles, forums, and even more incredibly this new craze of "twitching" where for absolutely free you let people actually watch you play. Galfond/Taylor Caby+CR guys/Mason/Jason Summerville/Krantz to one side (who actually made some real money out of opening the book for everyone) well done to you all you utter, utter morons.

99% of recreational player shouldn't even know HUDs exist.

Whenever I speak to recreational players now (who I like ) about online poker I say the same thing STAY WELL CLEAR as you literally stand no chance whatsoever and it's nothing to do with HUD's its to do with the environment of online poker now, no=one cares about maintaining an environment that is pleasurable for losing players (a duty that anyone calling themself a "pro" should take very seriously, it's simply about taking the money as fast as possible, with high rake and swarms of other regulars scrapping over any lose action it's the only way to win now.

I think this is what Antonius is saying when he say its "shame" because it really is, it's absolutely horrible, but we only have ourselves to blame.

This. Just a million times this.

This should be on the home page of 2+2 forever

[Jamier-Host]

I actually wrote an article on this for Alun back in 2009. I wasn't the first to raise concerns, but it certainly contributed to the decision to diversify my work expertise away from the poker world. Despite being very close to the iPoker management at the time working for one of their key partners, I wasn't able to get any real traction on this topic which worried me.

Soon after leaving i wrote a similar piece which, despite lauding a couple of companies who have since gone downhill, still makes sense to me. As Alan says, it's all about aiding people to enjoy the experience of spending their money.

[AlunB]

There is a third option, and that's the one Mr Dreyfus and his GPI is trying to push us towards. A world where poker is no longer a gambling game, but one more akin to a sport where the hard work, effort and skill is the entire point of the game. People will watch and play for the thrill of competition and improving and respect and admire both the skill needed to be good at the game and those who excel at it.

It's not a vision of poker most of us who play today will have much or a role in, but they are hoping to replace us with millions of esports players and video gamers. Rec poker players who love the gamble supporting the GPI are like turkeys voting for Xmas IMO.

[AlunB]

I actually wrote an article on this for Alun back in 2009. I wasn't the first to raise concerns, but it certainly contributed to the decision to diversify my work expertise away from the poker world. Despite being very close to the iPoker management at the time working for one of their key partners, I wasn't able to get any real traction on this topic which worried me.

Soon after leaving i wrote a similar piece which, despite lauding a couple of companies who have since gone downhill, still makes sense to me. As Alan says, it's all about aiding people to enjoy the experience of spending their money.

Again, I really am sorry about that caricature.

[arbboy]

There is a third option, and that's the one Mr Dreyfus and his GPI is trying to push us towards. A world where poker is no longer a gambling game, but one more akin to a sport where the hard work, effort and skill is the entire point of the game. People will watch and play for the thrill of competition and improving and respect and admire both the skill needed to be good at the game and those who excel at it.

It's not a vision of poker most of us who play today will have much or a role in, but they are hoping to replace us with millions of esports players and video gamers. Rec poker players who love the gamble supporting the GPI are like turkeys voting for Xmas IMO.

Handicap rating system needed to create a level playing field similar to horse racing.  Best players 'carry the most weight' or start with the fewest chips in mtts.  Huge fish start with massive stacks.  Impossible in reality obviously.

[AlunB]

There is a third option, and that's the one Mr Dreyfus and his GPI is trying to push us towards. A world where poker is no longer a gambling game, but one more akin to a sport where the hard work, effort and skill is the entire point of the game. People will watch and play for the thrill of competition and improving and respect and admire both the skill needed to be good at the game and those who excel at it.

It's not a vision of poker most of us who play today will have much or a role in, but they are hoping to replace us with millions of esports players and video gamers. Rec poker players who love the gamble supporting the GPI are like turkeys voting for Xmas IMO.

Handicap rating system needed to create a level playing field similar to horse racing.  Best players 'carry the most weight' or start with the fewest chips in mtts.  Huge fish start with massive stacks.  Impossible in reality obviously.

I was just thinking about that earlier, but from a comparison to golf and stableford points. It seems doable to me, but everyone would just cheat to get a worse score.

[GreekStein]

There is a third option, and that's the one Mr Dreyfus and his GPI is trying to push us towards. A world where poker is no longer a gambling game, but one more akin to a sport where the hard work, effort and skill is the entire point of the game. People will watch and play for the thrill of competition and improving and respect and admire both the skill needed to be good at the game and those who excel at it.

It's not a vision of poker most of us who play today will have much or a role in, but they are hoping to replace us with millions of esports players and video gamers. Rec poker players who love the gamble supporting the GPI are like turkeys voting for Xmas IMO.

Handicap rating system needed to create a level playing field similar to horse racing.  Best players 'carry the most weight' or start with the fewest chips in mtts.  Huge fish start with massive stacks.  Impossible in reality obviously.

I was just thinking about that earlier, but from a comparison to golf and stableford points. It seems doable to me, but everyone would just cheat to get a worse score.

In a parallel universe, where no-one cheated, how would this work?

[AlunB]

There is a third option, and that's the one Mr Dreyfus and his GPI is trying to push us towards. A world where poker is no longer a gambling game, but one more akin to a sport where the hard work, effort and skill is the entire point of the game. People will watch and play for the thrill of competition and improving and respect and admire both the skill needed to be good at the game and those who excel at it.

It's not a vision of poker most of us who play today will have much or a role in, but they are hoping to replace us with millions of esports players and video gamers. Rec poker players who love the gamble supporting the GPI are like turkeys voting for Xmas IMO.

Handicap rating system needed to create a level playing field similar to horse racing.  Best players 'carry the most weight' or start with the fewest chips in mtts.  Huge fish start with massive stacks.  Impossible in reality obviously.

I was just thinking about that earlier, but from a comparison to golf and stableford points. It seems doable to me, but everyone would just cheat to get a worse score.

In a parallel universe, where no-one cheated, how would this work?

Not sure, but let's say in MTTs you would get an average score based on 50-100 entries on a rolling basis?

That would be the handicap you submitted and would have to be earned in qualifying MTTs.

[AndrewT]

There is a third option, and that's the one Mr Dreyfus and his GPI is trying to push us towards. A world where poker is no longer a gambling game, but one more akin to a sport where the hard work, effort and skill is the entire point of the game. People will watch and play for the thrill of competition and improving and respect and admire both the skill needed to be good at the game and those who excel at it.

It's not a vision of poker most of us who play today will have much or a role in, but they are hoping to replace us with millions of esports players and video gamers. Rec poker players who love the gamble supporting the GPI are like turkeys voting for Xmas IMO.

This is very much like the surprisingly competitive nature of many play money poker players. You'd be amazed how serious some play money players are about the game, all for zero financial reward - it's all about status and the challenge of being better than other players.

[rfgqqabc]

Anyone would classify themselves as a recreational player who wants to play headsup any game up to 5/10$ online

Texas Hold’em
Omaha Hold’em
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better
Pot Limit Omaha
Pot Limit Omaha 8-or-better
Stud Games
Stud Games
Stud Hi
Razz
Stud Hi/Low 8-or-better
Draw Games
2-7 Triple Draw
NL 2-7 Single Draw
Pot Limit 5 Card Draw
Badeucey
Badacey
Mixed Games
HORSE
Triple Stud
7 Game
8 Game
9 Game
10 Game
12 Game
Dealer’s Choice

I will play you on stream without a HUD. You can have a HUD. Lets go.

Sakes. This is why we can't have nice things.

I tried explaining how little of an effect a hud will have 15+ times. One guy even asked me to turn mine off, so I clearly wasn't getting my point across. I felt like this is a better way, it certainly was better than writing an essay again. Anonymous tables won't work, no bots or colluders would ever be find. I guess it would be more under the table than huds though, so people would flock back.

Jivaro.com free huds for all. With the it you should be able to buy premium in a day then get a new house inside a couple of months.

[AndrewT]

If I gave my mum loads of drugs she'd still never be able to beat Usain Bolt, so I don't see what all the fuss is about Justin Gatlin using them.

[AlunB]

Anyone would classify themselves as a recreational player who wants to play headsup any game up to 5/10$ online

Texas Hold’em
Omaha Hold’em
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better
Pot Limit Omaha
Pot Limit Omaha 8-or-better
Stud Games
Stud Games
Stud Hi
Razz
Stud Hi/Low 8-or-better
Draw Games
2-7 Triple Draw
NL 2-7 Single Draw
Pot Limit 5 Card Draw
Badeucey
Badacey
Mixed Games
HORSE
Triple Stud
7 Game
8 Game
9 Game
10 Game
12 Game
Dealer’s Choice

I will play you on stream without a HUD. You can have a HUD. Lets go.

Sakes. This is why we can't have nice things.

I tried explaining how little of an effect a hud will have 15+ times. One guy even asked me to turn mine off, so I clearly wasn't getting my point across. I felt like this is a better way, it certainly was better than writing an essay again. Anonymous tables won't work, no bots or colluders would ever be find. I guess it would be more under the table than huds though, so people would flock back.

Jivaro.com free huds for all. With the it you should be able to buy premium in a day then get a new house inside a couple of months.

My point --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You

[RED-DOG]

If I gave my mum loads of drugs she'd still never be able to beat Usain Bolt, so I don't see what all the fuss is about Justin Gatlin using them.

I didn't even know Usain Bolt played poker.

[AndrewT]

If I gave my mum loads of drugs she'd still never be able to beat Usain Bolt, so I don't see what all the fuss is about Justin Gatlin using them.

I didn't even know Usain Bolt played poker.

'My mum played Usain Bolt at poker'

'Jamaica?'

'Yes, that's where he's from'

[RED-DOG]

If I gave my mum loads of drugs she'd still never be able to beat Usain Bolt, so I don't see what all the fuss is about Justin Gatlin using them.

I didn't even know Usain Bolt played poker.

'My mum played Usain Bolt at poker'

'Jamaica?'

'Yes, that's where he's from'

I think we may have damaged this thread beyond repair.