"The Online games are not fair anymore"

[TightEnd]

Antonius: “The online games aren’t fair anymore”

http://www.highstakesdb.com/6095-antonius-the-online-games-arent-fair-anymore.aspx#

" “It’s a little sad, but it looks like technology has advanced so much that it’s become a totally different game”, he replied when asked about his disappearance.

“Nowadays players use software that gives them so much information and so much data that it has become more a game of numbers.”

“I never used any programs. I never used any technology to gain an edge. I’m more of a feel player who’s living in the moment. But the players today know what they’re doing. They’re basing their play on what the software tells them to do so it feels like you’re playing against a computer these days.”

“I lost a million straight and realised I couldn’t beat the ring games anymore and that was largely down to tracking software.”

“If you don’t use poker software it’s not a fair game anymore in Hold’em and Omaha, but I do still like to play Mixed Games.”"

and

" “The big games I was playing in kind of dried out. In Macau the games moved more and more into private games and the game in Vegas wasn’t the same anymore, either.”

“Suddenly there were no more games in London and nothing in Monaco. You know, things just change in our industry. So I stepped back and cut down on poker.”"


now he is back playing live....

[POWWWWWWWW]

If you can't beat em ........

[CooperAyIt]

I've never been a fan of HUD's and I don't use one. May be viewed as a leak these days but it's just a personal preference as I enjoy playing live so don't want to become reliant on one and also I think they'll be banned from a lot of sites soon anyway.

Don't think anyone should call them 'unfair' though, it's legal and there if you want to use it.

It's almost like complaining 20 years ago that the guy who just beat you has read Super System and you haven't

[POWWWWWWWW]

Pretty sure he's not talking about HUD's either.

[mulhuzz]

Pretty sure he's not talking about HUD's either.

He specifically names tracking software. What else?

[DaveShoelace]

Great post from 2+2 about this:



CREV - $99
flopzilla - $35
HM2 - $100
Note Caddy - $90
Note Caddy Edge - $99
Table Ninja - $150
Pro Poker Tools - $89
Run It Once coaching - $100 /mo
Deposit - $500


You're now ready to play 10NL

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=48007581&postcount=13

[titaniumbean]

pt4 not hm2 innit


I imagine antonius never practiced before his tennis matches, or had a coach, or worked on his game. you all just turn up and play and hope right?

he's famous so people listen like he knows something special, all he's really saying is he doesn't want to put in the necessary work.

[TightEnd]

you all just turn up and play and hope right?

yes that is what recreational players do..and why not?

and without them there is no new money to funnel into the system you need to grow or else all you grinders are just passing money to each other in pretty little circles....

[titaniumbean]

you all just turn up and play and hope right?

yes that is what recreational players do..and why not?

and without them there is no new money to funnel into the system you need to grow or else all you grinders are just passing money to each other in pretty little circles....

Anotonius is a rec eh??


it's lucky that those running the sites are so ethical and long term minded eh

[RED-DOG]

you all just turn up and play and hope right?

yes that is what recreational players do..and why not?

and without them there is no new money to funnel into the system you need to grow or else all you grinders are just passing money to each other in pretty little circles....

Anotonius is a rec eh??


it's lucky that those running the sites are so ethical and long term minded eh

Why does the first eh get two question marks and the second eh get none?

[TightEnd]

you all just turn up and play and hope right?

yes that is what recreational players do..and why not?

and without them there is no new money to funnel into the system you need to grow or else all you grinders are just passing money to each other in pretty little circles....

Anotonius is a rec eh??


it's lucky that those running the sites are so ethical and long term minded eh

oh the sites definitely got it wrong

pandered to the grinders for years and let the entrance to the funnel shrink and close

you get my general point, its not a level playing field for a rec wanting to just play, on most sites

[titaniumbean]

could I just be a trader or a absolutely anything without a smidgeon of work? why is everyone entitled to win?


this is an article from someone complaining they had it easy and now dont want to work. why is this even being discussed.

there are myriad problems not least with the sites attitudes themselves, but with how they handle a range of other issues, like seating scripts, multi accounting, account purchasing deep etc etc all of which have a much more direct affect on the health of the system than 'HUDS'.


if you took out his picture, and replaced it with your average joe recreational player, you wouldnt be able to tell the difference from the 'I dont use huds, but it tells them what to do' bullshit.

maybe we should remove timebanks and brains so we just mash buttons with our face and gamble like the good old days (some will say many mtts regs already do this daily    ).

edit
the online games in terms of rake have never been fair, yet no one even notices even though we are getting to the stage where formats can become unbeatable.  similar costs to live poker.... oh wait no but yeh same rake, and never change it, whilst reducing rake back and complaining the players are the ones breaking the ecosystem.

[rfgqqabc]

Great post from 2+2 about this:



CREV - $99
flopzilla - $35
HM2 - $100
Note Caddy - $90
Note Caddy Edge - $99
Table Ninja - $150
Pro Poker Tools - $89
Run It Once coaching - $100 /mo
Deposit - $500


You're now ready to play 10NL

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=48007581&postcount=13

Silly silly post. Just makes no sense. Half the tools do the same thing for one. You wouldn't want table ninja as someone starting out. I've never used hotkeys and I've played 25 tables at a time, so someone learning to play poker certainly wont. There are many free resources out there for microstakes players and its just simply bullshit to extrapolate Antonious "I can't beat nosebleeds without software" to fucking 10nl.

Making microstakes rake beatable might be useful for a start but as per usual people never look at the sites in this regard and keep blaming completely stupid stuff. I must say I feel absolutely no sympathy for poor old Antonious who can't add to his pile of money anymore without doing any real work.

I'm not sure how many more times I can explain this. Recs lose because they aren't very good. Not because of software. It is my profession to beat these people, don't blame me when I do lol. I'm sorry the skill level is too high for you to rofl up and make a few quid now, but its the exact same in almost every profession.

[POWWWWWWWW]

Pretty sure he's not talking about HUD's either.

He specifically names tracking software. What else?

HUD's have been around for 10 years, and PA for sure knew people were using them back when he was playing nosebleeds. Poker theory (esp at high stakes) has gone waaaaaaaaaaaay beyond the old school sickos, this last year or two. People may be better at interpreting their HUDs now but it's only from off the table work using the newly available software. I'm sure PA knows of these things but I'm certain he isn't willing to put 10+ hours a day into off the table work on his computer.

[GreekStein]

Titaniumbean I don't really agree with your posts.

I'm a professional poker player. I work on my game. I watch videos. I discuss hands with friends. I'll occasionally even crunch some numbers. I for sure play more hands and more often than 99.x% of recs keeping me sharper and making less mistakes. I have started using a HUD again because I feel I have to in order to not fall behind other pros and not give them a headstart on me that I don't have on them.

These are things that in my mind, give me a fair edge and don't put me in the bracket of 'lazy' that you put Patrik Antonius in. APART from the HUD bit.

I am against HUDS being allowed in games.



Why should anyone be able to see someone's flop fold to cbet percentage in 3bet pots or their button open % etc etc? HUDS totally lend themselves to helping pros and recs need some protection from them.

Call me old school but poker talent to me doesn't equate to sitting down and playing from a bunch of numbers that a program has given you that you couldn't work out for yourself.

I could ramble about this all day BUT at the end of the day, most recs have this huge fear of them. A HUD isn't some magical programme that means you can't beat the player using it but when used effectively it gives a bigger advantage than I'd deem fair.

I'd love to see ALL sites scrap them.

Recs are scared of HUDS. Recs don't use HUDS. Recs don't want to play when other people CAN use HUDS. Why should HUDs be allowed again?