Euro 2016 thread

[flushthemout]

Why do the press never ask RH about Kane taking corners?

[arbboy]

Why has Hart not been outed for his terrible 'no mans land position' for the goal last night?  Everyone keeps saying 'there was nothing he could do about it blah blah blah'.  Correct given how bad a position he took up and how he was so desperate to moan for offside after he realised  he was totally out of position for this so called 'non stoppable' header.  Didn't look too unstoppable to me if he was positioned correctly.

[hhyftrftdr]

Enjoyed the 1st half enormously last night and we should have had the game won by half-time.

Lots of criticism on here (and bile in many other places) about Sterling. I actually thought he was very good in the 1st half but very disappointing from some promising positions in the 2nd half. Definitely a tale of 2 halves for him and I understand the frustration but to mark his overall performance as “awful” is ridiculous.

Thought Hodgson should have pulled him at about 60 mins. In fact very difficult to understand why Hodgson didn’t change it in the 2nd half particularly when you consider the options on the bench. Kane had a poor match and no one has mentioned Lallana who had good moments in the 1st half but was totally anonymous in the 2nd.

I’ve watched a recording of the game again this morning. More to the point it wasn’t really “watching” but more of a crude analysis breaking down the game into segments and looking at specific things. It is something I do relatively regularly for big City games when I’ve seen the game live. One specific “thing” I looked at it this morning was Sterling and to test if my perception that he had a very good 1st first half was over influenced by my City bias. It wasn’t. He was pretty much faultless for the 1st 30 minutes and involved in so much that was good about England’s domination of the early stages.

If anyone has kept a recording, is as sad as me and has the time or inclination, have a look at:

2.36
8.27
11.47
16.39
20.19
23.30  (running through on goal and great defending – would Vardy have done better there?)
30.29  (his 1st mistake when he scuffed an easy ball that would have released Kane)
35.44
39.55


I can also post the times from the 2nd half which didn’t end too well :)

Did you log the times when Hart kicked for touch? His distribution of the ball is poor considering he is England's No1.

No I didn't log his long ball distribution because it is something that can be quickly looked up on a "match stat" site.  All his short passes were ok and he misplaced 11 long balls. On the face of it that sounds lots doesn't it? It is, however, pretty standard for Hart because he averaged 10 inaccurate long balls per game in the PL last season.

I would have thought there must be room for improvement there and you certainly won't catch me, or for that matter probably any City fan,  shouting from the rooftops suggesting Hart has great distribution.

As you are a United fan, how do you feel about De Gea's distribution?
Are you in the same camp as BorntoBubble who said last night  "maybe I'm blessed watching DDG every week who is immense at distribution"?
Are you aware, as great a goalkeeper as DDG is, that he averaged nearly 11 inaccurate long balls per game in the PL last season? Coincidentally the same number as Hart last night....

Game set and match Archer.

[hhyftrftdr]

Why has Hart not been outed for his terrible 'no mans land position' for the goal last night?  Everyone keeps saying 'there was nothing he could do about it blah blah blah'.  Correct given how bad a position he took up and how he was so desperate to moan for offside after he realised  he was totally out of position for this so called 'non stoppable' header.  Didn't look too unstoppable to me if he was positioned correctly.

I don't think his position was terrible. To save it, he would've had to have been on his line, and that would have been terrible positioning in itself.

I'm sure Butland would have kept it out, and then saved the 2 follow up attempts.

[arbboy]

Why has Hart not been outed for his terrible 'no mans land position' for the goal last night?  Everyone keeps saying 'there was nothing he could do about it blah blah blah'.  Correct given how bad a position he took up and how he was so desperate to moan for offside after he realised  he was totally out of position for this so called 'non stoppable' header.  Didn't look too unstoppable to me if he was positioned correctly.

I don't think his position was terrible. To save it, he would've had to have been on his line, and that would have been terrible positioning in itself.

I'm sure Butland would have kept it out, and then saved the 2 follow up attempts.

Nothing worse than being in no man's land.   Way better on the line or committing in full than just standing in a spot where nothing could be done.  Where is the benefit of being in the position he was in?   He had nothing to do all night apart from this and got it wrong as usual.  Nothing to do with Jack or any other keeper.  The bottom line is he talks a lot of bollocks in press conferences after the match and singing the national anthum dreaming he is the modern day Stuart Pearce when he is just a jobbing keeper who has had the easiest 6 year reign as a number 1 keeper with zero competition in the history of the game.  Pretty sure Pep sees it the same.   I would be amazed if he is still your keeper at the end of next season.

[david3103]

Enjoyed the 1st half enormously last night and we should have had the game won by half-time.

Lots of criticism on here (and bile in many other places) about Sterling. I actually thought he was very good in the 1st half but very disappointing from some promising positions in the 2nd half. Definitely a tale of 2 halves for him and I understand the frustration but to mark his overall performance as “awful” is ridiculous.

Thought Hodgson should have pulled him at about 60 mins. In fact very difficult to understand why Hodgson didn’t change it in the 2nd half particularly when you consider the options on the bench. Kane had a poor match and no one has mentioned Lallana who had good moments in the 1st half but was totally anonymous in the 2nd.

I’ve watched a recording of the game again this morning. More to the point it wasn’t really “watching” but more of a crude analysis breaking down the game into segments and looking at specific things. It is something I do relatively regularly for big City games when I’ve seen the game live. One specific “thing” I looked at it this morning was Sterling and to test if my perception that he had a very good 1st first half was over influenced by my City bias. It wasn’t. He was pretty much faultless for the 1st 30 minutes and involved in so much that was good about England’s domination of the early stages.

If anyone has kept a recording, is as sad as me and has the time or inclination, have a look at:

2.36
8.27
11.47
16.39
20.19
23.30  (running through on goal and great defending – would Vardy have done better there?)
30.29  (his 1st mistake when he scuffed an easy ball that would have released Kane)
35.44
39.55


I can also post the times from the 2nd half which didn’t end too well :)

Did you log the times when Hart kicked for touch? His distribution of the ball is poor considering he is England's No1.

No I didn't log his long ball distribution because it is something that can be quickly looked up on a "match stat" site.  All his short passes were ok and he misplaced 11 long balls. On the face of it that sounds lots doesn't it? It is, however, pretty standard for Hart because he averaged 10 inaccurate long balls per game in the PL last season.

I would have thought there must be room for improvement there and you certainly won't catch me, or for that matter probably any City fan,  shouting from the rooftops suggesting Hart has great distribution.

As you are a United fan, how do you feel about De Gea's distribution?
Are you in the same camp as BorntoBubble who said last night  "maybe I'm blessed watching DDG every week who is immense at distribution"?
Are you aware, as great a goalkeeper as DDG is, that he averaged nearly 11 inaccurate long balls per game in the PL last season? Coincidentally the same number as Hart last night....

Game set and match Archer.

Just spent some time on a stats site, I won't be arguing football statistics with Archer again.
Clearly Joe Hart is a Demi-God and England are fortunate indeed to have him.

[arbboy]

#Funny when keepers are getting evaluated on how good their distribution is without considered how many times they play a long ball up field!  Just take the absolute numbers don't worry about how many times they are actually forced to do this.  What about worrying about the real reason the keeper is there?  To stop goals going in.  Surely their distribution of the ball is way down the list of how you judge a keeper.  Like asking how many times does your centre forward make a backward pass in judging how good he is at his job?

[swinebag22]

#Funny when keepers are getting evaluated on how good their distribution is without considered how many times they play a long ball up field!  Just take the absolute numbers don't worry about how many times they are actually forced to do this.  What about worrying about the real reason the keeper is there?  To stop goals going in.  Surely their distribution of the ball is way down the list of how you judge a keeper.  Like asking how many times does your centre forward make a backward pass in judging how good he is at his job?

'Sweeper Keepers' are all the rage these days, so while I disagree about most of what you said about Hart and the goal conceded, I agree that he could be out of Pep's plans for next year. Not because he is a poor keeper but more to do with poor feet skills.

Already a few keepers being linked with City and Everton linked with Hart

[Archer]

Enjoyed the 1st half enormously last night and we should have had the game won by half-time.

Lots of criticism on here (and bile in many other places) about Sterling. I actually thought he was very good in the 1st half but very disappointing from some promising positions in the 2nd half. Definitely a tale of 2 halves for him and I understand the frustration but to mark his overall performance as “awful” is ridiculous.

Thought Hodgson should have pulled him at about 60 mins. In fact very difficult to understand why Hodgson didn’t change it in the 2nd half particularly when you consider the options on the bench. Kane had a poor match and no one has mentioned Lallana who had good moments in the 1st half but was totally anonymous in the 2nd.

I’ve watched a recording of the game again this morning. More to the point it wasn’t really “watching” but more of a crude analysis breaking down the game into segments and looking at specific things. It is something I do relatively regularly for big City games when I’ve seen the game live. One specific “thing” I looked at it this morning was Sterling and to test if my perception that he had a very good 1st first half was over influenced by my City bias. It wasn’t. He was pretty much faultless for the 1st 30 minutes and involved in so much that was good about England’s domination of the early stages.

If anyone has kept a recording, is as sad as me and has the time or inclination, have a look at:

2.36
8.27
11.47
16.39
20.19
23.30  (running through on goal and great defending – would Vardy have done better there?)
30.29  (his 1st mistake when he scuffed an easy ball that would have released Kane)
35.44
39.55


I can also post the times from the 2nd half which didn’t end too well :)

Did you log the times when Hart kicked for touch? His distribution of the ball is poor considering he is England's No1.

No I didn't log his long ball distribution because it is something that can be quickly looked up on a "match stat" site.  All his short passes were ok and he misplaced 11 long balls. On the face of it that sounds lots doesn't it? It is, however, pretty standard for Hart because he averaged 10 inaccurate long balls per game in the PL last season.

I would have thought there must be room for improvement there and you certainly won't catch me, or for that matter probably any City fan,  shouting from the rooftops suggesting Hart has great distribution.

As you are a United fan, how do you feel about De Gea's distribution?
Are you in the same camp as BorntoBubble who said last night  "maybe I'm blessed watching DDG every week who is immense at distribution"?
Are you aware, as great a goalkeeper as DDG is, that he averaged nearly 11 inaccurate long balls per game in the PL last season? Coincidentally the same number as Hart last night....

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

I'm not surprised at the figures, although they are a very base way of measuring the efficacy of a keeper's distribution. I cba to check but I wouldn't be surprised if Schmeichel's numbers were good as he had the option of lumping it upfield and having Jamie Vardy chasing it.
DDG probably had the ball passed to him a lot more than Hart last season bearing in mind United's position in the sideways and backwards pass league, his 11 per game might only have been a small percentage. Whereas Hart was playing for the ever expansive Manchester City and maybe only had to distribute the ball 12 times a game

My issue last night was that Hart didn't seem capable of keeping it on the pitch.

  TBF,  De Gea's long ball accuracy was about 40% last season and Hart's about 35%. Schmeichel's was about 31% albeit there must have been a far better ultimate end result on his numbers.

I suppose the point is that goalkeeper long-ball accuracy has not been mastereed and they are all shit. Different story for the easy short-ball stuff but De Gea had the worst % success rate in the league which surprised me somewhat.

[Archer]

Why has Hart not been outed for his terrible 'no mans land position' for the goal last night?  Everyone keeps saying 'there was nothing he could do about it blah blah blah'.  Correct given how bad a position he took up and how he was so desperate to moan for offside after he realised  he was totally out of position for this so called 'non stoppable' header.  Didn't look too unstoppable to me if he was positioned correctly.

I don't think his position was terrible. To save it, he would've had to have been on his line, and that would have been terrible positioning in itself.

I'm sure Butland would have kept it out, and then saved the 2 follow up attempts.

Nothing worse than being in no man's land.   Way better on the line or committing in full than just standing in a spot where nothing could be done.  Where is the benefit of being in the position he was in?   He had nothing to do all night apart from this and got it wrong as usual.  Nothing to do with Jack or any other keeper.  The bottom line is he talks a lot of bollocks in press conferences after the match and singing the national anthum dreaming he is the modern day Stuart Pearce when he is just a jobbing keeper who has had the easiest 6 year reign as a number 1 keeper with zero competition in the history of the game.  Pretty sure Pep sees it the same.   I would be amazed if he is still your keeper at the end of next season.

Jobbing keeper? Classic line - genuinely made me laugh. WP.

[Archer]

#Funny when keepers are getting evaluated on how good their distribution is without considered how many times they play a long ball up field!  Just take the absolute numbers don't worry about how many times they are actually forced to do this.  What about worrying about the real reason the keeper is there?  To stop goals going in.  Surely their distribution of the ball is way down the list of how you judge a keeper.  Like asking how many times does your centre forward make a backward pass in judging how good he is at his job?

Absolute numbers worked best to make the point to these pesky United fans who were having a pop at Hart's distribution. I can bore you to death with the rest if you want.

As Swinebag says, sweeper keepers are the rage. Pep loves them because, simplistically, he can get an extra man in midfield and theoretically dominate midfield to attack more and restrict the opponent to fewer opportunities. A downgrade on Hart's stop shotting ability to someone more comfortable with the ball at his feet  might well be a priority for Pep and I wouldn't be surprised to see the departure of Hart if he doesn't adapt after Pep's arrival. 

[arbboy]

Why has Hart not been outed for his terrible 'no mans land position' for the goal last night?  Everyone keeps saying 'there was nothing he could do about it blah blah blah'.  Correct given how bad a position he took up and how he was so desperate to moan for offside after he realised  he was totally out of position for this so called 'non stoppable' header.  Didn't look too unstoppable to me if he was positioned correctly.

I don't think his position was terrible. To save it, he would've had to have been on his line, and that would have been terrible positioning in itself.

I'm sure Butland would have kept it out, and then saved the 2 follow up attempts.

Nothing worse than being in no man's land.   Way better on the line or committing in full than just standing in a spot where nothing could be done.  Where is the benefit of being in the position he was in?   He had nothing to do all night apart from this and got it wrong as usual.  Nothing to do with Jack or any other keeper.  The bottom line is he talks a lot of bollocks in press conferences after the match and singing the national anthum dreaming he is the modern day Stuart Pearce when he is just a jobbing keeper who has had the easiest 6 year reign as a number 1 keeper with zero competition in the history of the game.  Pretty sure Pep sees it the same.   I would be amazed if he is still your keeper at the end of next season.

Jobbing keeper? Classic line - genuinely made me laugh. WP.

That's why a team who finished in the bottom half of the EPL last season have real ambitions to sign him.  That is his level.  Most keepers in the EPL could have played in front of your defence/midfield in the last few years and it wouldn't have made a great deal of difference to your results.

[Archer]

Why has Hart not been outed for his terrible 'no mans land position' for the goal last night?  Everyone keeps saying 'there was nothing he could do about it blah blah blah'.  Correct given how bad a position he took up and how he was so desperate to moan for offside after he realised  he was totally out of position for this so called 'non stoppable' header.  Didn't look too unstoppable to me if he was positioned correctly.

I don't think his position was terrible. To save it, he would've had to have been on his line, and that would have been terrible positioning in itself.

I'm sure Butland would have kept it out, and then saved the 2 follow up attempts.

Nothing worse than being in no man's land.   Way better on the line or committing in full than just standing in a spot where nothing could be done.  Where is the benefit of being in the position he was in?   He had nothing to do all night apart from this and got it wrong as usual.  Nothing to do with Jack or any other keeper.  The bottom line is he talks a lot of bollocks in press conferences after the match and singing the national anthum dreaming he is the modern day Stuart Pearce when he is just a jobbing keeper who has had the easiest 6 year reign as a number 1 keeper with zero competition in the history of the game.  Pretty sure Pep sees it the same.   I would be amazed if he is still your keeper at the end of next season.

Jobbing keeper? Classic line - genuinely made me laugh. WP.

That's why a team who finished in the bottom half of the EPL last season have real ambitions to sign him.  That is his level.  Most keepers in the EPL could have played in front of your defence/midfield in the last few years and it wouldn't have made a great deal of difference to your results.

His level? Well, it would be interesting to see him play for a mid-table team again with a mid-table defence  like he did when he was on loan to Birmingham as a 22 year old in 2009/2010 in their 1st year back in the PL. He was able to showcase his talents back then and he helped them finish 9th in the league and was their  POTY.
 
There is a quirky coincidence with Butland there because he was also 22 I think at the start of 2015/2016, Stoke finshed 9th and Butland was POTY.

For good measure, Hart also was the PFA goalkeeper of the year in 2009/2010. And up the foodchain he went to his correct level.......

[david3103]

#Funny when keepers are getting evaluated on how good their distribution is without considered how many times they play a long ball up field!  Just take the absolute numbers don't worry about how many times they are actually forced to do this.  What about worrying about the real reason the keeper is there?  To stop goals going in.  Surely their distribution of the ball is way down the list of how you judge a keeper.  Like asking how many times does your centre forward make a backward pass in judging how good he is at his job?

Absolute numbers worked best to make the point to these pesky United fans who were having a pop at Hart's distribution. I can bore you to death with the rest if you want.

As Swinebag says, sweeper keepers are the rage. Pep loves them because, simplistically, he can get an extra man in midfield and theoretically dominate midfield to attack more and restrict the opponent to fewer opportunities. A downgrade on Hart's stop shotting ability to someone more comfortable with the ball at his feet  might well be a priority for Pep and I wouldn't be surprised to see the departure of Hart if he doesn't adapt after Pep's arrival. 

My Unitedness wasn't what prompted my comment, it was a text from my City supporting mate which was sent unprompted and said "Hart's distribution has been shocking all season"

Can we move onto the next game now? Same starting eleven?
Wales likely to defend deep might favour Kane, or dare I suggest Rashford? Vardy still a great sub as the game changes, especially f we get in front.

[TightEnd]

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