Happy Mondays

[MANTIS01]

The new proposal is cool for recs because we can happily rock up on Sat knowing the chances are we wont make it through the day. If we do it's almost certain we wont make it through Day 2. So the huge majority of the time there wont be a problem and we will simply enjoy a weekend of poker. It's only our illogical optimism which presents the problem. But you've got to implement +EV thinking here right?

On the other point about phoning your boss for a day off...

Fact 1: As a professional business manager your job is to implement +EV strat too, to max the ROI of the business.
Fact 2: In every single job there is a negative affect on ROI by absence. Or why the hell does that job exist in the first place??

You could pick any example. Let's say the one morning chef at a business pulls this stunt? Now suddenly the business can't sell food, it can't operate, the customers are sorely disappointed, reputation damaged, the rest of the team affected, complaints. The list is endless, so where is the win for the business? Sure thing if you're a valued employee and have a decent boss then something can be arranged, it's not the end of the world. But it's not optimum either! If the boss has any kind of professional attitude then trying to imagine he'll be happy to swallow losses to the business whilst you max personal +EV at the gaming tables is a deluded rec attitude to business. There will deffo be a lasting impact in relations and that's not +EV either...so pulling a sickie is the only option....nomatter how uneasy it sits with Tikay....ooohhh me aching back boss!!

[Rexas]

I don't think it is even just a poker thing, it is a lack of notice thing. 

I am never ringing my boss on Monday to let him know I am on my way to the Centre Court at Wimbledon.  It is just wrong in my eyes.  It is absolutely fine having a day off to go to Wimbledon or play poker if I give him/her a week or so's notice.  It isn't fine if I just assume he is OK with it and just go anyway.  I say this as somebody who has employed people, been self employed and been an employee.   If you have something planned, book a day off or an afternoon off.  If you'd been doing extra hours, I may even let you have the afternoon off gratis.   

So a friend who has two tickets to see Federer v Nadal in the qtr finals of Wimbledon finds he can't go and offers you the tickets, you don't even contemplate phoning your boss and explaining the chance you've got?

I'd be more scared of pissing off my missus by turning them down than my boss for accepting!

My mum got given tickets to go and see Robbie Williams at Wembley a week before the concert, booked off the holiday time, and then had a meeting time changed which she had to attend so she couldn't go. She works for the local council, and much of her job involves meetings etc which she has to attend, and the amount of ballache it would incur to move these meetings around (even if she is actually off sick) is tremendous, if she can physically make it in to work then she will. I don't think she's in a minority here, for people who aren't pro poker players I think they value their job more than their hobbie, and won't enter a tournament on the basis that it's possible they'd have to miss a Monday off work at short notice, because in a risk-reward sense it's not worth risking your job or your reputation etc for a chance at a big poker score, because their career and their families guarunteed long term financial security is more important.

[AlunB]

The new proposal is cool for recs because we can happily rock up on Sat knowing the chances are we wont make it through the day. If we do it's almost certain we wont make it through Day 2. So the huge majority of the time there wont be a problem and we will simply enjoy a weekend of poker. It's only our illogical optimism which presents the problem. But you've got to implement +EV thinking here right?

On the other point about phoning your boss for a day off...

Fact 1: As a professional business manager your job is to implement +EV strat too, to max the ROI of the business.
Fact 2: In every single job there is a negative affect on ROI by absence. Or why the hell does that job exist in the first place??

You could pick any example. Let's say the one morning chef at a business pulls this stunt? Now suddenly the business can't sell food, it can't operate, the customers are sorely disappointed, reputation damaged, the rest of the team affected, complaints. The list is endless, so where is the win for the business? Sure thing if you're a valued employee and have a decent boss then something can be arranged, it's not the end of the world. But it's not optimum either! If the boss has any kind of professional attitude then trying to imagine he'll be happy to swallow losses to the business whilst you max personal +EV at the gaming tables is a deluded rec attitude to business. There will deffo be a lasting impact in relations and that's not +EV either...so pulling a sickie is the only option....nomatter how uneasy it sits with Tikay....ooohhh me aching back boss!!

You're just taking an unplanned day's holiday though. People do take holidays.

[The Camel]

I don't think it is even just a poker thing, it is a lack of notice thing. 

I am never ringing my boss on Monday to let him know I am on my way to the Centre Court at Wimbledon.  It is just wrong in my eyes.  It is absolutely fine having a day off to go to Wimbledon or play poker if I give him/her a week or so's notice.  It isn't fine if I just assume he is OK with it and just go anyway.  I say this as somebody who has employed people, been self employed and been an employee.   If you have something planned, book a day off or an afternoon off.  If you'd been doing extra hours, I may even let you have the afternoon off gratis.   

So a friend who has two tickets to see Federer v Nadal in the qtr finals of Wimbledon finds he can't go and offers you the tickets, you don't even contemplate phoning your boss and explaining the chance you've got?

I'd be more scared of pissing off my missus by turning them down than my boss for accepting!

My mum got given tickets to go and see Robbie Williams at Wembley a week before the concert, booked off the holiday time, and then had a meeting time changed which she had to attend so she couldn't go. She works for the local council, and much of her job involves meetings etc which she has to attend, and the amount of ballache it would incur to move these meetings around (even if she is actually off sick) is tremendous, if she can physically make it in to work then she will. I don't think she's in a minority here, for people who aren't pro poker players I think they value their job more than their hobbie, and won't enter a tournament on the basis that it's possible they'd have to miss a Monday off work at short notice, because in a risk-reward sense it's not worth risking your job or your reputation etc for a chance at a big poker score, because their career and their families guarunteed long term financial security is more important.

So what would have happened if she had booked a holiday to Florida which co incided with a change in the date of the meeting?

She would have given up her holiday?

[EvilPie]

I employ a few people all of whom are free to take a day's leave at short notice if they need it. As an employer you have to be able to react to short notice absences so as a few have said the business will cope and it most certainly won't be the end of the world.

When they get back to work I'll ask them the reason they were absent and depending on the reason I'll make a decision how to record it on their file or even whether to record it at all. I'm such a sympathetic person that they might even get paid if it's a really good reason such as their child taking ill or such like.

In my industry there are ups and downs. We have busy spells and quiet spells and as a result there are inevitable redundancy situations every so often.

Who do you think gets selected for redundancy if I have no choice but to make one of these three excellent employees all doing exactly the job on £50k per year redundant?

Employee 1 - Hard working, highly qualified, impeccable time keeping, high quality of work, zero unexplained absences.
Employee 2 - Hard working, highly qualified, impeccable time keeping, high quality of work, zero unexplained absences.
Employee 3 - Hard working, highly qualified, impeccable time keeping, high quality of work, 2 days off because he made a couple of poker finals last year.

So yes. Go ahead and take that day off without giving me any notice. As long as you're good at your job I'll forgive you and as long as it doesn't happen often you won't face disciplinary action. Just be aware that however minor it may seem, there are circumstances, however unlikely where that day off may have an affect on whether or not you keep your £50k a year job.

[Simon Galloway]

Who do you think gets selected for redundancy

[AlunB]

I employ a few people all of whom are free to take a day's leave at short notice if they need it. As an employer you have to be able to react to short notice absences so as a few have said the business will cope and it most certainly won't be the end of the world.

When they get back to work I'll ask them the reason they were absent and depending on the reason I'll make a decision how to record it on their file or even whether to record it at all. I'm such a sympathetic person that they might even get paid if it's a really good reason such as their child taking ill or such like.

In my industry there are ups and downs. We have busy spells and quiet spells and as a result there are inevitable redundancy situations every so often.

Who do you think gets selected for redundancy if I have no choice but to make one of these three excellent employees all doing exactly the job on £50k per year redundant?

Employee 1 - Hard working, highly qualified, impeccable time keeping, high quality of work, zero unexplained absences.
Employee 2 - Hard working, highly qualified, impeccable time keeping, high quality of work, zero unexplained absences.
Employee 3 - Hard working, highly qualified, impeccable time keeping, high quality of work, 2 days off because he made a couple of poker finals last year.

So yes. Go ahead and take that day off without giving me any notice. As long as you're good at your job I'll forgive you and as long as it doesn't happen often you won't face disciplinary action. Just be aware that however minor it may seem, there are circumstances, however unlikely where that day off may have an affect on whether or not you keep your £50k a year job.

I like this. Probably the best summation so far.

[StuartHopkin]

At what point during the weekend are people ringing in to ask for a days holiday?

Assuming Monday morning?

So your boss asks why you are asking for a holiday day when you should already be at your desk, what do you tell him?

Your boss says no, what do you do then?

Pretty surprised at people thinking this isn't a big deal

[nirvana]

I employ a few people all of whom are free to take a day's leave at short notice if they need it. As an employer you have to be able to react to short notice absences so as a few have said the business will cope and it most certainly won't be the end of the world.

When they get back to work I'll ask them the reason they were absent and depending on the reason I'll make a decision how to record it on their file or even whether to record it at all. I'm such a sympathetic person that they might even get paid if it's a really good reason such as their child taking ill or such like.

In my industry there are ups and downs. We have busy spells and quiet spells and as a result there are inevitable redundancy situations every so often.

Who do you think gets selected for redundancy if I have no choice but to make one of these three excellent employees all doing exactly the job on £50k per year redundant?

Employee 1 - Hard working, highly qualified, impeccable time keeping, high quality of work, zero unexplained absences.
Employee 2 - Hard working, highly qualified, impeccable time keeping, high quality of work, zero unexplained absences.
Employee 3 - Hard working, highly qualified, impeccable time keeping, high quality of work, 2 days off because he made a couple of poker finals last year.

So yes. Go ahead and take that day off without giving me any notice. As long as you're good at your job I'll forgive you and as long as it doesn't happen often you won't face disciplinary action. Just be aware that however minor it may seem, there are circumstances, however unlikely where that day off may have an affect on whether or not you keep your £50k a year job.

I like this. Probably the best summation so far.

Yeh but jobs are like buses

'Cheers Mr Evil, it's been good and you seem a fair man, good luck'

[NoCardDSC]

I employ a few people all of whom are free to take a day's leave at short notice if they need it. As an employer you have to be able to react to short notice absences so as a few have said the business will cope and it most certainly won't be the end of the world.

When they get back to work I'll ask them the reason they were absent and depending on the reason I'll make a decision how to record it on their file or even whether to record it at all. I'm such a sympathetic person that they might even get paid if it's a really good reason such as their child taking ill or such like.

In my industry there are ups and downs. We have busy spells and quiet spells and as a result there are inevitable redundancy situations every so often.

Who do you think gets selected for redundancy if I have no choice but to make one of these three excellent employees all doing exactly the job on £50k per year redundant?

Employee 1 - Hard working, highly qualified, impeccable time keeping, high quality of work, zero unexplained absences.
Employee 2 - Hard working, highly qualified, impeccable time keeping, high quality of work, zero unexplained absences.
Employee 3 - Hard working, highly qualified, impeccable time keeping, high quality of work, 2 days off because he made a couple of poker finals last year.

So yes. Go ahead and take that day off without giving me any notice. As long as you're good at your job I'll forgive you and as long as it doesn't happen often you won't face disciplinary action. Just be aware that however minor it may seem, there are circumstances, however unlikely where that day off may have an affect on whether or not you keep your £50k a year job.

Hit the nail on the head!

[The Camel]

At what point during the weekend are people ringing in to ask for a days holiday?

Assuming Monday morning?

So your boss asks why you are asking for a holiday day when you should already be at your desk, what do you tell him?

Your boss says no, what do you do then?

Pretty surprised at people thinking this isn't a big deal

I would say on the Wednesday before I started playing,

"Guvnor, there's a decent tournament at DTD this weekend, I'm thinking of having a crack, but the final is on Monday. If the 1% chance of making the final 9 comes in, is it ok that I take a day's holiday? I won't bother entering if you need me"

[EvilPie]

'Cheers Mr Evil, it's been good and you seem a fair man, good luck'

'Thanks for taking this so well mate. Last time I had to lay someone off two weeks before Christmas it was heart wrenching but you've made it almost pleasurable. Fancy a pint?'

Who needs zero hours contracts when it's this easy to employ and lay off.

[EvilPie]

At what point during the weekend are people ringing in to ask for a days holiday?

Assuming Monday morning?

So your boss asks why you are asking for a holiday day when you should already be at your desk, what do you tell him?

Your boss says no, what do you do then?

Pretty surprised at people thinking this isn't a big deal

I would say on the Wednesday before I started playing,

"Guvnor, there's a decent tournament at DTD this weekend, I'm thinking of having a crack, but the final is on Monday. If the 1% chance of making the final 9 comes in, is it ok that I take a day's holiday? I won't bother entering if you need me"

"Yeah sounds perfectly reasonable mate. In return is it okay if next time we have a job cancelled at short notice I just send you home for a day and not pay you?"

[nirvana]

'Cheers Mr Evil, it's been good and you seem a fair man, good luck'

'Thanks for taking this so well mate. Last time I had to lay someone off two weeks before Christmas it was heart wrenching but you've made it almost pleasurable. Fancy a pint?'

Who needs zero hours contracts when it's this easy to employ and lay off.

I do understand that, for a lot of people, losing a job would be tough and could cause them a certain amount of first world hardship. For those people it obviously makes no sense to jeopardise their job for something as trivial as poker. I also think it's the most debilitating fear of the various fears that certain people like to create in the gen pop.

Maybe I'm too optimistic but I just don't worry about losing my job - I can identify with it to a degree of course as I had a few years in my twenties where job security was a concern to me and decided I wouldn't take that ticket.

By the way, I wouldn't actively cause a problem for my employer if I could help it as I do think it is unprofessional. Sure we could have a poll about which torney structure suits you best but the rest of the convo feels a bit meaningless for the personal circs reasons people have alluded to - we're all in different spots.

Most people do seem a tad wimpy, servile and grateful their employer has them - this is bad for the soul.

[david3103]

At what point during the weekend are people ringing in to ask for a days holiday?

Assuming Monday morning?

So your boss asks why you are asking for a holiday day when you should already be at your desk, what do you tell him?

Your boss says no, what do you do then?

Pretty surprised at people thinking this isn't a big deal

I would say on the Wednesday before I started playing,

"Guvnor, there's a decent tournament at DTD this weekend, I'm thinking of having a crack, but the final is on Monday. If the 1% chance of making the final 9 comes in, is it ok that I take a day's holiday? I won't bother entering if you need me"

That's the adult way to approach it. But it isn't what the debate has been about.