It's mark up time of the year again!

[AndrewT]

Again, sorry if I've ruffled a few feathers, my initial intentions where to add a constructive post of how i justified both buying and selling at mark up in my own head.

Don't be sorry son - you helped spark a new thread about poker that's more than 2 pages long. The last time we had one of those was about 2011.

[scotty77]

I've played it 4 times and never had what I would class as an easy table.

I've had softer EPT tables then any of my WSOP mains.

Hopefully this year I get the seat next to the guy who found a golden ticket in a wonka bar.

[The Camel]

I've played it 4 times and never had what I would class as an easy table.

I've had softer EPT tables then any of my WSOP mains.

Hopefully this year I get the seat next to the guy who found a golden ticket in a wonka bar.

I had a guy sat next to my that lifted his cards up from the table to look at them.

I saw his hole cards well over 50% of the time.

At what point should I have stopped telling him "I can see your cards"?

[rfgqqabc]

I've played it 4 times and never had what I would class as an easy table.

I've had softer EPT tables then any of my WSOP mains.

Hopefully this year I get the seat next to the guy who found a golden ticket in a wonka bar.

I had a guy sat next to my that lifted his cards up from the table to look at them.

I saw his hole cards well over 50% of the time.

At what point should I have stopped telling him "I can see your cards"?

3 warnings and ask the dealer to clarify he understands you.

No problem Dung. I probably won't stop posting though. If you can't see the difference between that and the point i was trying to put across I must not have been clear.

Like I see what Dan has said as "Future posters will be *****" and I think it isn't as bad because it isn't aimed at anyone. It doesn't have a specific target.

[DungBeetle]

I've played it 4 times and never had what I would class as an easy table.

I've had softer EPT tables then any of my WSOP mains.

Hopefully this year I get the seat next to the guy who found a golden ticket in a wonka bar.

I had a guy sat next to my that lifted his cards up from the table to look at them.

I saw his hole cards well over 50% of the time.

At what point should I have stopped telling him "I can see your cards"?

3 warnings and ask the dealer to clarify he understands you.

No problem Dung. I probably won't stop posting though. If you can't see the difference between that and the point i was trying to put across I must not have been clear.

Like I see what Dan has said as "Future posters will be *****" and I think it isn't as bad because it isn't aimed at anyone. It doesn't have a specific target.

Reading my post back it might come across too aggro. Was trying to make a joke to make a point but reading it back may come over completely the wrong way.  Hope it is read in the way intended! 

[tikay]

Urghhh I really feel like i need to clarity something. I in no way meant to offend anyone or make out that the whole poker community were morons. I don't think or believe this. My use of 'rando morons' was directed at nobody personally but clueless peole that don't think about what they are doing and just click buttons. This only in referred to the main event and the complete newbees that you wouldn't get in any other 10k tourney and i meant it in a way of poining out 'dead money' and value, rather than offending people. just as i would say "morons on the roads make driving dangerous" (and not expect people to take offence at that). I meant it as poker morons, i wasn't calling anyone a poker moron specifically.

"Being a lesser poker player does not make a person a moron."  I couldn't agree more with this... and in no way meant to berate the poker world.

Anyone that knows me will know that i wouldn't have meant offence by this at all. A key theme of many of my articles is helping the poker eco system and protecting recreational players, I wouldn't not attack them personally or as a whole nor do i disregard them at all.

Nonetheless, the interpretation of what i wrote doesn't mirror my views and i should have selected my words more carefully. I whole heatedly apologies for this. I'm really not an arrogant person, anyone who knows me or has watched me on Twitch or anything else will hopefully know this.

I have massive respect for the entire poker community, at all levels, and I'd actually argue that the speed the game is evolving is evidence that  there are few 'morons' in the game. I simply didn't consdier my wrods correctly, nor did I  assume (nor do i believe) that every non recreational player would consider them part of the "rando moron" classification (again hate this choice of wording). What I meant was that there are a few clueless players, that probably have no chance of winning, and this add value to the main event.

recreational player, amateur, inexperienced player or any other player that has some idea what they are doing do not equal what i was trying to describe as a "poker moron".

again sorry for anyne who took offence. Please accept my apologies.... I'm not an arrogant tosser... honest!

reg the expenses thing. I initially only included it because i didn't want to seem arrogant and had seen it elsewhere. it felt like fair justification for me, and that's something i do consider when ii buy action.... but I can see some valid points of its irrelevance. I initially I didn't want to seem like a cocky twat by saying "oh i think i have a 50% roi at the main so I'm selling at 1.25" and as it's somethign I considered when i bought action at mark up in the past form people, I just assumed people would think along the same lines as me.

Again, sorry if I've ruffled a few feathers, my initial intentions where to add a constructive post of how i justified both buying and selling at mark up in my own head.


Dan

Good post Dan, appreciated, & I genuinely hope you have a good run in Vegas.

I'll be there most of the Series, usually in or around the Media Centre, let's try & bump into each other. Mine's a latte, two sugar please, with a sticky bun on the side. 

[Doobs]

Welcome to Blonde Dan.  Hope you stick around. 

Cheers

[Simon Galloway]

.....

Very good, here was my take 4 years ago, dug up from another thread ~ also well worth a trawl through for those interested in staking and newer in to the scene.

Simon, as there are some market factors at work beyond simply "value"

Would you interfere with this process (can you interfere with it), in terms of price setting, or merely wait for the factors to disssipate and equilibrium prices move towards something more realistically equating to EV?

I am largely in the laissez-faire school on most things like this.  I don't think you can interfere or unduly influence the action of the price takers.  If someone is having the bailiffs come round shortly, they might be far more willing to pay 2.0 at auction for a "shit-or-bust" 30% of a player.  That is going to be unattractive to others, obviously, but I don't think there's anything anyone can do to "protect them from themselves" if they want to bid 2.0...

"simply value" is uncertain enough a concept as it is anyway!  I don't think, for example, that backing a 21 year old going to Vegas for the first time is usually a good idea.  Most people who have been to Vegas will know what I'm on about, every chance they go off the rails, do something stupid w.r.t. tax, FX, gambling, drinking, etc that whilst the player is masquerading as "I'm easily worth 1.6" I am likely to price that up as not worth 1.0.  Others won't come to the same valuation and I have no idea who is right and wrong, just my take is that there is enough recent evidence to suggest it is +0.6 for edge on the field, but -0.8 in clown's tax.  Others won't share that view, or may not have previously factored it in.  They are free to pay whatever premium they see fit.

[Omm]

I'm sure some mathematician could work out an equation that could be universally used to equate how to mark something up but then again I'm sure people would disagree with that as well.

Anyway I really posted to say regardless of who thinks what this has been a great read from all sides.

Welcome to Blonde Dan, hope you stick around.

[Marky147]

If you've got a bit of time, these Sheets segments are pretty interesting.

http://pokercast.twoplustwo.com/listen_and_browse.php?episode=271

Sheets @ 2hr 14m (m/u starts at 2hr 28m)


http://pokercast.twoplustwo.com/listen_and_browse.php?episode=277

Sheets @ 1hr 20m

[david3103]

I'm sure some mathematician could work out an equation that could be universally used to equate how to mark something up but then again I'm sure people would disagree with that as well.

Anyway I really posted to say regardless of who thinks what this has been a great read from all sides.

Welcome to Blonde Dan, hope you stick around.

Would it give results to 3 decimal places?

[Omm]

I'm sure some mathematician could work out an equation that could be universally used to equate how to mark something up but then again I'm sure people would disagree with that as well.

Anyway I really posted to say regardless of who thinks what this has been a great read from all sides.

Welcome to Blonde Dan, hope you stick around.

Would it give results to 3 decimal places?

10, let's make it accurate 

[tikay]

Now that we seem to be back on a more even keel, I wanted to pick up on something Rexus mentioned.

He wrote this......


".....I have seen, especially with the recent HUD argument and from chatting to people at my local, that the idea of being a "pro" is one that isn't looked at very kindly...."

I actually disagree with that quite strongly, though the mention of the various HUD debates muddies the water.

As to not looking at poker pros "kindly", I think that's incorrect. There are several poker pros on blonde, & they don't seem unpopular to me. Amongst them are two very successful Pros who both keep a Diary, Alex & Patrick.  I'd say the readers here take very kindly to both of them, & why would they not?

An analogy would be in football. Aside from Club rivalries, all football fans would love the chance to rub shoulders with, or chat to, big-name pro footballers. Alex & Patrick would be the equivalent of, say, Sanchez & Vardy or whoever.

Next Door, where we don't have too many big boys, whenever a player there happens to land on a table with a name, or pro, they write about it as a big deal, as an event, something they love to do. 

"I shared a table with Jake Cody yesterday" sort of thing. And how weird is that - they shared a table with a player who is gonna take their pants down 9 times out of 10, & yet they love the experience. They do.

So I disagree, but you hit the nail on the head when you mention HUD's. Righty or wrongly, the perception from fun players is that HUD's & third party software gives the Pros an unfair advantage. It does not matter if that may be untrue - it's the perception that needs to be addressed. Any discussion on those topics tends to get hot & angry, no idea why, but they do. And this is where, imo, some of the Pros need to work on their PR skills. Instead of ranting about how wrong the fun guys are, take a more reasoned, softer line, & try to help the amateurs.  When Alex & Patrick dispense poker advice, (or Grafton, Cody, Brammer or whoever), we all listen, don't we? Of course we do. And poker is quite unusual in this respect, we can rub shoulders with the Pros & Big Boys.

The pros earn their living, or much of it, from the amateurs, they are their pay packet. So a little cooey-wooey would go a long way, no matter how "dark & sinister" some may think that is.

Anyway, I just wanted to correct the view that us amateurs don't take kindly to Pros. I believe the opposite is true. 

[celtic]

I saw a guy get a bad beat from Mike sexton at the weekend. It knocked him out the comp. he rushed over to tell his girlfriend, who was sitting near by all about it with a level of excitement similar to someone who had just won the comp.

I agree with tikay.

[shipitgood]

I would imagine most players are generally apathetic to "pros" with good times/ gambling being their main thing.