Renee Xsie

[aaron1867]

I'm not sure how this could have been a planned scam, when she has given some of the money to BRS. I'm not even sure why she even gave any of the money to BRS either.

[Rexas]

I'm not sure how this could have been a planned scam, when she has given some of the money to BRS. I'm not even sure why she even gave any of the money to BRS either.

To clarify, she requested that she be named anonymous on the reporting of the tournament (and is shown as such on the hendon mob http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/event.php?a=r&n=361843) and she refused to be part of the final table photo. She also (unconfirmed, but has been said a fair few times) sold extra for this event. This was not a case of her getting a big score and taking the snap decision to run away with it. To make yourself appear anonymous and back out of the final table photo clearly indicates that she intended to scam all the way through, and had considered how to go about it without getting found out some time before she actually won.

She gave 4k back to BRS only after being confronted about the grim and threatened with court proceedings, she fully intended to take the whole lot and would have done if she hadn't been found out.

[aaron1867]

Yeah, I get the whole anon thing. I just don't particulary get the reason for the £4K giveback. Are you still considering court proceedings?

[MANTIS01]

PM sent

[Pinchop73]

Thread is becoming a bit of a camel witchhunt and I'm not comfortable with it.

[MANTIS01]

tbf wud Alex say that if camel was 6ft4 and built like a brick shithouse?

[Whollyflush]

tbf wud Alex say that if camel was 6ft4 and built like a brick shithouse?

bang bang

[I KNOW IT]

Absolutely bizarre stance in the thread from Camel.

It's very simple. Imagine you were a reg in Luton card room and you were kinda guy to put people in comps. She knows this and is friendly with you, she manages to convince you to start putting her jn tournaments. Meanwhile she's doing the same thing with multiple others too, overselling and making money. (I'm not sure if you realise she also sold to outside investors as well as playing this on stake and didn't pay them either)

Weeks/months go by (God knows how long she's been doing this) and then you catch her. You're playing the next night and feel completely aggrieved. You tell a table mate and their response is "yeah I knew she had done this a few months ago, didn't really want to say anything, she's just a woman and there's worse humans in the field.

How tilted would you be? If threads like this don't happen then scammers will scam again and again. In fact sorry that's wrong, scammers will scam again regardless of threads like this, but because of these threads less people will get fucked.

How tilted would you be if someone started a thread about you and you were innocent?

I know one player whose reputation was completely trashed in a thread like this. And he was entirely innocent.

It was complicated, but I believe in the situation he was in, he did nothing wrong.

Would that be the Ram / Ivey golf bet thread from many years ago Keith ?

[relaedgc]

Is theft morally acceptable? No, it isn't.

Is it morally acceptable to run a business that effectively gives people credit to fund something that could be a problem or an addiction? No, it isn't.

Because you are all poker players, it possibly doesn't register as unusual because staking is normal and accepted as a practice. It's illegal to give credit for gaming for an operator. I don't really think this is that different.

If you're going to take the moral high ground about ethical behaviour, the first port of call is surely that we don't put ourselves in a position where we potentially exacerbate the underlying problems/demons that other people have.

Again - I accept that theft is wrong. But desperate people will behave desperately.

[DungBeetle]

Is theft morally acceptable? No, it isn't.

Is it morally acceptable to run a business that effectively gives people credit to fund something that could be a problem or an addiction? No, it isn't.

Because you are all poker players, it possibly doesn't register as unusual because staking is normal and accepted as a practice. It's illegal to give credit for gaming for an operator. I don't really think this is that different.

If you're going to take the moral high ground about ethical behaviour, the first port of call is surely that we don't put ourselves in a position where we potentially exacerbate the underlying problems/demons that other people have.

Again - I accept that theft is wrong. But desperate people will behave desperately.

I think there is a big distinction.  Operators would be giving credit hoping that the clients lose.  Stakers give credit hoping that they win. Their interests are aligned.

[EvilPie]

Is theft morally acceptable? No, it isn't.

Is it morally acceptable to run a business that effectively gives people credit to fund something that could be a problem or an addiction? No, it isn't.

Because you are all poker players, it possibly doesn't register as unusual because staking is normal and accepted as a practice. It's illegal to give credit for gaming for an operator. I don't really think this is that different.

If you're going to take the moral high ground about ethical behaviour, the first port of call is surely that we don't put ourselves in a position where we potentially exacerbate the underlying problems/demons that other people have.

Again - I accept that theft is wrong. But desperate people will behave desperately.

This is actually a very good point and one that I'd not thought of before.

[George2Loose]

Operators would give credit if it was profitable.

This thread has been ridiculous enough without Casino's taking the moral high ground.

[MANTIS01]

I agree it's a distinctly valid point and a very interesting point.

The problem is at some stage society need to draw a line and not give excuses for people to latch onto, no matter how unfair it might seem, people ultimately need to stand tall and take responsibility for themselves and their actions. Mental problems, addictions or fell asleep at the keyboard...where does it end? Once we are happy to make and accept excuses the act becomes acceptable and tolerable. In society these days it's always somebody else's fault, everybody is a victim of circumstance. As harsh as it seems we need to be definitive about what is right and what is wrong regardless of circumstance, if not we no longer have free will as people we are merely puppets of circumstance.

[DaveShoelace]

I agree it's a distinctly valid point and a very interesting point.

The problem is at some stage society need to draw a line and not give excuses for people to latch onto, no matter how unfair it might seem, people ultimately need to stand tall and take responsibility for themselves and their actions. Mental problems, addictions or fell asleep at the keyboard...where does it end? Once we are happy to make and accept excuses the act becomes acceptable and tolerable. In society these days it's always somebody else's fault, everybody is a victim of circumstance. As harsh as it seems we need to be definitive about what is right and what is wrong regardless of circumstance, if not we no longer have free will as people we are merely puppets of circumstance.

Might be the first time I've agreed with a Mantis post so have to give it a deserving gif.

[doubleup]

Operators would give credit if it was profitable.

This thread has been ridiculous enough without Casino's taking the moral high ground.

They do give credit and presumably it is profitable over the long term

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/ritz-casino-sues-high-roller-clients-after-gambling-debts-lead-to-125-million-loss-10103156.html