Official cryptocurrency thread (Bitcoin, Ethereum, Altcoin)

[mikeymike]

When people stopped smoking and started to vape look what happened the big tobacco companies entered the market.

When cryptocurrencies settle down the financiers will steam in and take control.

One thing is for it wont be long before a new idea comes along and surpasses crypto, technology is just so fast moving.

[Doobs]

amazing how virtually every single banking executive has solidly said that bitcoin is a scam and a bubble and will burst...

Perhaps the people running are taking 8 figure salaries whilst bitcoin is spewing money off and losing it's customers money??  That would be a truly horrible scam.

Virtually every single banking executive has made no comnent about bitcoin at all.  

And those that have made comment maybe aren't just concerned with their bottom line.  For instance, I expect many people will get seriously burned, and worry about the after effects.  I have no self interest other than vague second order ones, and I do a lot if work for financial sevices companies.

[lucky_scrote]

One thing is for it wont be long before a new idea comes along and surpasses crypto, technology is just so fast moving.

Disagree very strongly.

[EvilPie]

Q&A
What is bitcoin and is it a bad investment?

One of a number of cryptocurrencies, bitcoin is not regulated and is controlled by a network of computers that update all transactions which take place on a variety of trading platforms around the world. It only exists digitally and is “mined” using mathematical equations.

But on Monday, a top central banker said the European Union should look at the possibility of regulating bitcoin because of the risk of money laundering. Speaking in Vienna, Ewald Nowotny, said: “Simply because of the scale, it is certainly increasingly necessary to discuss whether and in what form regulations are needed here.”

Nowotny, Austria’s central bank governor and also involved in setting interest rates at the European Central Bank, added: “A particular aspect that needs to be discussed ... is the question of how far the regulations on money laundering ... are relevant here.”

His remarks come after warnings from other senior bankers about the risks associated with bitcoin. Last week, Howard Davies, chairman of Royal Bank of Scotland, had said the sign should be put up from Dante’s Inferno – “Abandon hope all ye who enter here” – while Jamie Dimon, the head of JP Morgan, has talked about bitcoin as being worse than tulip mania and potentially used by “a drug dealer, a murderer, stuff like that”.

Fucking weak, cmon.

These greedy bankers really are threatened but they don't know where to begin. With crypto it is possible to actually prevent money laundering and the fraudulent handling of funds, something the current system managed to avoid for the rich and famous.

Shouldn't the people that control our wealth be interested in future technology and improvements to our monetary system?

I assume this is if the miners decide not to allow it?

I read something about it preventing arms deals and restricting funds to terrorists. Is this possible presumably by the same means?

If the miners can prevent transactions or of course allow them how is it better than what we have now? Does it mean that tech savvy miners have more say in financial policy than voted in Governments?

What's to stop a drugs cartel building a huge server farm and dedicating it to crypto mining? How many of the 'peers' have to approve before a transaction can happen?

I'm not supporting the banks here by the way. They're w**kers!!

[muckthenuts]

Everything exploding right now. You could literally pull 5 random coins to invest in over the last few days and you'd be up a chunk. Futures has clearly had a huge positive effect on the market, but are we simply seeing a largescale pump and dump?

Currently i've about doubled my investment in 3 weeks. Although the technology is amazing, it's internet 3.0 etc my gut is telling me to stop and get out now! For some reason i picture the value of crypto falling off a cliff but i'm sure it doesn't actually work this way lol. But yeah, thinking about just cashing out 90% of my portfolio and watching the rest from the sidelines.

Not sure what i'm going to do but either way this has been an incredibly valuable learning experience and a hell of a fun ride (so far)

[SuuPRlim]

amazing how virtually every single banking executive has solidly said that bitcoin is a scam and a bubble and will burst...

Perhaps the people running are taking 8 figure salaries whilst bitcoin is spewing money off and losing it's customers money??  That would be a truly horrible scam.

Virtually every single banking executive has made no comnent about bitcoin at all.  

And those that have made comment maybe aren't just concerned with their bottom line.  For instance, I expect many people will get seriously burned, and worry about the after effects.  I have no self interest other than vague second order ones, and I do a lot if work for financial sevices companies.

I've attended 3 seminars in the last 4 weeks where there has been major economic/banking industry figures speaking and every single one devoted at least 10% of their speech to how dreadful BTC is...

[TightEnd]

Bitcoin buyer beware: US SEC warns 'extreme caution' over cryptocurrency investments

Head of US financial regulator concerned by lack of protections saying there are ‘substantial risks of theft or loss, including from hacking’

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/dec/12/bitcoin-buyer-beware-us-sec-warns-extreme-caution-over-cryptocurrency-investments?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_b-gdnnews#link_time=1513099226

[TightEnd]

The bitcoin boom is a surprise windfall for druggies

Those who bought the cryptocurrency for illicit trades have ended up with a good investment.

https://www.newstatesman.com/science-tech/future-proof/2017/12/bitcoin-boom-surprise-windfall-druggies

[lucky_scrote]

amazing how virtually every single banking executive has solidly said that bitcoin is a scam and a bubble and will burst...

Perhaps the people running are taking 8 figure salaries whilst bitcoin is spewing money off and losing it's customers money??  That would be a truly horrible scam.

Virtually every single banking executive has made no comnent about bitcoin at all.  

And those that have made comment maybe aren't just concerned with their bottom line.  For instance, I expect many people will get seriously burned, and worry about the after effects.  I have no self interest other than vague second order ones, and I do a lot if work for financial sevices companies.

I've attended 3 seminars in the last 4 weeks where there has been major economic/banking industry figures speaking and every single one devoted at least 10% of their speech to how dreadful BTC is...

My cousin's girlfriend has a good job with one of the major banks in the Netherlands. She had to spend a day in Amsterdam whilst her superiors spent a lot of their time explaining how BTC is for criminals and gamblers. Absolutely shocking. I mean they are right about the gamblers bit let's be honest, a lot of poker players have been attracted by crypto. However, criminals? I was pretty annoyed in one respect since my cousin wanted to invest a decent chunk into btc but I think his partner is going to pressure him into not making that decision anymore.

[lucky_scrote]

I assume this is if the miners decide not to allow it?

I read something about it preventing arms deals and restricting funds to terrorists. Is this possible presumably by the same means?

If the miners can prevent transactions or of course allow them how is it better than what we have now? Does it mean that tech savvy miners have more say in financial policy than voted in Governments?

What's to stop a drugs cartel building a huge server farm and dedicating it to crypto mining? How many of the 'peers' have to approve before a transaction can happen?

I'm not savvy enough to answer your questions with detail, hopefully someone else can.

[RickBFA]

Q&A
What is bitcoin and is it a bad investment?

One of a number of cryptocurrencies, bitcoin is not regulated and is controlled by a network of computers that update all transactions which take place on a variety of trading platforms around the world. It only exists digitally and is “mined” using mathematical equations.

But on Monday, a top central banker said the European Union should look at the possibility of regulating bitcoin because of the risk of money laundering. Speaking in Vienna, Ewald Nowotny, said: “Simply because of the scale, it is certainly increasingly necessary to discuss whether and in what form regulations are needed here.”

Nowotny, Austria’s central bank governor and also involved in setting interest rates at the European Central Bank, added: “A particular aspect that needs to be discussed ... is the question of how far the regulations on money laundering ... are relevant here.”

His remarks come after warnings from other senior bankers about the risks associated with bitcoin. Last week, Howard Davies, chairman of Royal Bank of Scotland, had said the sign should be put up from Dante’s Inferno – “Abandon hope all ye who enter here” – while Jamie Dimon, the head of JP Morgan, has talked about bitcoin as being worse than tulip mania and potentially used by “a drug dealer, a murderer, stuff like that”.

Fucking weak, cmon.

These greedy bankers really are threatened but they don't know where to begin. With crypto it is possible to actually prevent money laundering and the fraudulent handling of funds, something the current system managed to avoid for the rich and famous.

Shouldn't the people that control our wealth be interested in future technology and improvements to our monetary system?

Perhaps the key thing is that this is all unregulated. Historically, where you see unregulated activities there are often fraud and cons.

If you take mainstream financial services as an example, where Joe Bloggs gets ripped off is by investing with dodgy businesses not UK regulated, selling UCIS style products (unregulated collective investment schemes).

There have also been plenty of examples of the regulatory shutting UK regulated firms for selling UCIS style investments to naïve investors.

Where people usually get really screwed is where there is no regulation (I'm not saying regulation is perfect, far from it, but it does increase consumer protection).

So like it or not, Crypocurrency will be a rich breeding ground for conmen to screw over the public.

[lucky_scrote]

Where people usually get really screwed is where there is no regulation (I'm not saying regulation is perfect, far from it, but it does increase consumer protection).

So like it or not, Crypocurrency will be a rich breeding ground for conmen to screw over the public.

Strongly agree yes, regulation can't come quick enough. The guardian article above doesn't take away a lot from the actual statement that the SEC made. Overall it was a positive outlook and ethereum shot up about 25% overnight because of it.

[AndrewT]

What's to stop a drugs cartel building a huge server farm and dedicating it to crypto mining?

That's already happening - bitcoin mining rigs were found in a raid on one of the Irish drug gang's operations in the Netherlands.

http://www.thejournal.ie/bitcoin-mine-cash-kinahan-3597575-Dec2017/

[SuuPRlim]

oh yeah criminals are loving bitcoins, no doubting that.

[acegooner]

If you're in today then you're early. For anyone who is suffering with regret from not being involved yet then the next couple of weeks are a good time to do it. Lots of very important news is coming this month and therefore a lot of early investors are selling as well as newer investors being apprehensive about buying, therefore I think the price of most coins won't change a lot for a month. It doesn't take long to learn how to invest and there is plenty of information on the internet.

For me Bitcoin is always king and I will always have a lot of my portfolio weighted around this (about 50%). Initially I was invested in Ethereum pretty deep too and whilst it will always do well I just think that with the potential of so many other alt coins, that ethereum isn't that far ahead of the game anymore.

I've spread the rest of my portfolio between 5 other alt coins which are Antshares (NEO), stratis, waves, gamecredits and monaco (new, just hit the market). Also punted on another ICO but that's all it is, a punt.

I don't know a heap about all of these coins although I would say I'm best informed on BTC ETH GAME and monaco.

I'm interested to see how much action this thread gets, I imagine to begin with very little but by the end of the year it will pick up some traction .

Looking back at this thread,  what a great post this was which totally called everything correctly.  Any tips for altcoins in the current market gratefully received ty.

Let's set a few things straight. I definitely appreciate the comment though.

I didn't call everything correctly. During a bull market (when everything keeps going up) people around you will seem to be doing well. The ones that are doing well people will tend to listen to. They will definitely seem like geniuses. My poker analogy is that you should judge a poker player on their day to day routine, discipline and how they handle downswings and when things aren't going their way. Not who has just won the SM twice in a year or just won the WSOP.

My biggest strike was definitely investing in ANS which is now NEO at around the $7 mark. I invested a lot of time into that, just like I do whenever I shift my money around and that coin soared like nothing before. However, despite it having such an insane run it has actually performed WORSE than bitcoin since around June when it was $7.

One thing I was definitely correct with was that bitcoin is king. I didn't practice what I preach and most of the time I had 50% of my portfolio in coins other than bitcoin. To this date, I am currently just over -50% vs bitcoin in trades. We can't analyse our performance by comparing it to the dollar because this is a bull market. If you're going to trade crypto you need to compare it to bitcoin. I will assume that 99%+ of people involved in crypto that have made a trade since April have fallen behind BTC. If you're one of the lucky ones, then you really are lucky or you are one of the few who spend all their time in crypto, and get lucky.

I was told to diverse in crypto rather than going 100% btc when I first jumped into the crypto space. Whilst I believe this statement is solid I cannot help but feel fooled with hindsight. I believe my current mistakes so far are not being btc heavy enough (I would suggest most people go 90%+ but 75%+ is also sensible), getting emotionally attached to projects and finally spending too much time learning about this amazing technology, it has totally consumed me at times.

If you want to invest in crypto then there is one, maybe two answers to success:

1. DO YOUR OWN FUCKING RESEARCH. If a coin is being shilled it will gain popularity for the wrong reasons. If Harry Redknapp is promoting a coin then you ought to be worried.

2. Bitcoin is king. For the time being, go allin on bitcoin. I still don't practice this.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Chronologically to this date I am not an early adopter, but I believe if you invested before Summer you will always be considered a somewhat early adopter. Bitcoin has hit mainstream for good now. My bbc app is filtered to business, economy and technology; until recently I would see one crypto article a fortnight but now it is almost every day. I think we have seen many posts in this thread from people with a better financial background than most that have chuckled at some statements. I do believe that a lot of these people are within good reason to make strong assumptions about the bubble that we are in, I definitely do not dismiss posts from acegooner and in fact I find them interesting despite a few nerves being hit sometimes . However, crypto is no tulipmania. It's a bubble but it's no tulipmania. In the dotcom bubble of 2000, some companies managed to drag themselves through the dirt and that crash is merely a blip on the radar. Bitcoin is no different in the respect that it may very well be worth nothing or $1m a coin one day. Most cryptos will fail spectacularly and people that are heavily invested in overly speculative projects are going to feel the burn one day.

Some extra thoughts:

Things I believe strongly in

Crypto is internet 2.0. It will be a bigger part of our lives than the internet even if we are not always directly involved. For example, money is bigger than the internet but for the most part we don't use it that often. The internet really makes the world go round atm.
Bitcoin will continue to grow in a parabolic manner for a long time, but a big "correction" is inevitable.
Bitcoin will continue to outperform almost all cryptos on a yearly rolling basis and is going to take a long time to remove it's dominance of crypto. If you add up the value of all the cryptos in the world, they still amount to less than bitcoins entire market cap.

[/u]Things I am unsure about[/u]

The future of bitcoin. Despite it's current domination some things and perspectives are going to have to change. I won't go into technical mumbo jumbo here, but there are definitely some huge hurdles that need to be overcome
If crypto will take over fiat currencies. It seemed absolutely absurd to mention this to strangers even a year ago, but the potential is absolutely there

[/u]Things that piss me off[/u]

The immaturity of the crypto space. It's full of a lot of 20-25 year olds that make a lot of noise and this is difficult to sieve through at times.
Technical analysis. My 3 year old nephew can draw lines too, well done. You have absolutely no idea what you are doing or talking about (IMO).
People that invest without having a scooby doo because they have fear of missing out. How about you take a few months to understand the tech before diving in with your wallet. If you have a friend that you completely have faith in, then fine, but don't put it on his head if you lose money. I spent 6 months reading and reading before I invested a penny. No regrets there.
The unregulated space and reactions to FUD. It's quite astonishing how much manipulation and pump&dump groups that exist. It's not what crypto is about but where there's money, there's greed. There is a lot of greed. A LOT OF GREED.


Come back to this space when we have a huge pull back and the market is bearish. The noise of silly teenagers trying to spin up their paperround money will be gone and the more interesting technical side of crypto will amerge once again. For now, sit back, switch on bbc 1 and listen to some more crypto related news.

I am not sure what you are exactly trying to say here. You made a prediction on the price of BTC. By and large, you got it right. There was a 50% chance you could have got it wrong, that doesn't make you Einstein or make you thick.

I have made comments about immature investors and I stand by that. If you only hold a portfolio of cryptocurrencies and have no consideration for any other asset class, then to me it shows a lack of understanding when it comes to diversification of risk. It's a bit like taking crack cocaine when you haven't tried any of the milder stuff.

As I said last week, the institutions are interested in Crypto Currencies because they want to shake the weak minded investors out. They do this by manipulating the prices of the biggest coins (currently BTC) pumping the price ever upwards, and then shorting the death out of them. They then walk in and pick up the pieces when every man and his dog has run for the exit door. That ultimately will give cryptocurrencies a bad name. In my opinion, allowing a futures market to be established in this space is a disaster waiting to happen.