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Author Topic: What's the most unpopular benign opinion you hold?  (Read 27025 times)
DaveShoelace
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« Reply #105 on: August 07, 2017, 05:51:02 PM »

British professional gamblers should pay income tax.
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arbboy
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« Reply #106 on: August 07, 2017, 05:57:51 PM »

British professional gamblers should pay income tax.

Definition please for tax purposes and if you go skint and lose £500k in a year do you get rollover tax relief carried forward to future business ventures like other loss making businesses would?  Are certain tax years losses deductable against future tax years profits as in standard businesses?  Do the 98% of people who gamble get a tax debate against their losses each year via their tax return?  How would you effectively police it?

If Paul Newey (ocean finance and worth £400m) wins £5m a year gambling casually because he is a zillionaire via investements/business interests is he considered a professional gambler for tax purposes?
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 06:00:54 PM by arbboy » Logged
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« Reply #107 on: August 07, 2017, 05:59:30 PM »

British professional gamblers should pay income tax.
Would British amateur gamblers be exempt?
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« Reply #108 on: August 07, 2017, 06:05:34 PM »

I don't have a problem with athletes who dope

defo wanna hear more on this!

In my opinion, in a day and age when salary is intrinsically linked to performance, it makes sense for sportsman to push every edge they can get in order to maximise their results. If they are willing to take the consequences that come with getting caught then fair play to them. It's a short career for most and in order to set themselves up for a life post sport, I don't have an issue with those who want to push the boundaries (cheat).

It's admirable for those who don't and still reach the world class level but the guys who are dope by are still doing the same training and still pushing  their bodies to the max. It's basically the ultimate calculated gamble (and we all love gambling!) - risk career, reputation and health but reap the rewards if undetected. There are plenty undetected too.

Young, vulernable kids will be forced into doping by managers, trainers and agents in order for their financial gain.

Who knows what long term risks they will be taking with their health.
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DaveShoelace
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« Reply #109 on: August 07, 2017, 06:26:36 PM »

British professional gamblers should pay income tax.

Definition please for tax purposes and if you go skint and lose £500k in a year do you get rollover tax relief carried forward to future business ventures like other loss making businesses would?  Are certain tax years losses deductable against future tax years profits as in standard businesses?  Do the 98% of people who gamble get a tax debate against their losses each year via their tax return?  How would you effectively police it?

If Paul Newey (ocean finance and worth £400m) wins £5m a year gambling casually because he is a zillionaire via investements/business interests is he considered a professional gambler for tax purposes?

The same as any other business basically, whatever a trader would have to do as a jumping off point.

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DaveShoelace
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« Reply #110 on: August 07, 2017, 06:27:40 PM »

FYI I dont mind that they dont, its good for me as somebody who works in the industry that more money is going in and out, but they should pay tax like everyone else is my point.
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scotty77
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« Reply #111 on: August 07, 2017, 06:29:19 PM »

British professional gamblers should pay income tax.

I agree in principal but the enforcement and paperwork associated with this would be a nightmare and would probably cost way more than it generates.  Kind of like how the state pension/free TV license isn't means tested so just given to everyone even if they are multi-millionaires.

Also the amount of professional gamblers is actually quite small, how many in total in the UK?  A few thousand?  The govt still rakes 50% of income in live casinos don't they, and 15% of online profits?  Most pro gamblers will have paid more in tax than the avg person via this route, plus the makeup demographics of them will mean that they don't use as many public services as the avg person too (male, between 20 and 40 and without kids).

The average pro gambler def lives in a bubble and they should donate to charity or volunteer tho as its a very selfish industry and perspective is required.
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rinswun
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« Reply #112 on: August 07, 2017, 06:49:54 PM »

I don't have a problem with athletes who dope

defo wanna hear more on this!

In my opinion, in a day and age when salary is intrinsically linked to performance, it makes sense for sportsman to push every edge they can get in order to maximise their results. If they are willing to take the consequences that come with getting caught then fair play to them. It's a short career for most and in order to set themselves up for a life post sport, I don't have an issue with those who want to push the boundaries (cheat).

It's admirable for those who don't and still reach the world class level but the guys who are dope by are still doing the same training and still pushing  their bodies to the max. It's basically the ultimate calculated gamble (and we all love gambling!) - risk career, reputation and health but reap the rewards if undetected. There are plenty undetected too.

Young, vulernable kids will be forced into doping by managers, trainers and agents in order for their financial gain.

Who knows what long term risks they will be taking with their health.

Yep. Youngsters' health being put at risk for others personal gain and public entertainment. Basically a sporting reality to contest with physical health replacing mental health.

Youth doping is happening already in a number of sports. I know anecdotally of a few youth rugby players on doping programs in order to get themselves a physique to compete for a first team spot from age 18. 'Natural' youngsters being left behind and not getting contracts. Cycling, basketball, tennis also have youth doping issues.
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« Reply #113 on: August 07, 2017, 07:01:19 PM »

I don't have a problem with athletes who dope

defo wanna hear more on this!

In my opinion, in a day and age when salary is intrinsically linked to performance, it makes sense for sportsman to push every edge they can get in order to maximise their results. If they are willing to take the consequences that come with getting caught then fair play to them. It's a short career for most and in order to set themselves up for a life post sport, I don't have an issue with those who want to push the boundaries (cheat).

It's admirable for those who don't and still reach the world class level but the guys who are dope by are still doing the same training and still pushing  their bodies to the max. It's basically the ultimate calculated gamble (and we all love gambling!) - risk career, reputation and health but reap the rewards if undetected. There are plenty undetected too.

Young, vulernable kids will be forced into doping by managers, trainers and agents in order for their financial gain.

Who knows what long term risks they will be taking with their health.

Yep. Youngsters' health being put at risk for others personal gain and public entertainment. Basically a sporting reality to contest with physical health replacing mental health.

Youth doping is happening already in a number of sports. I know anecdotally of a few youth rugby players on doping programs in order to get themselves a physique to compete for a first team spot from age 18. 'Natural' youngsters being left behind and not getting contracts. Cycling, basketball, tennis also have youth doping issues.

Is cheating in all forms, in all sports OK for financial gain? Or just drug cheating?
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EvilPie
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« Reply #114 on: August 07, 2017, 07:15:38 PM »

British professional gamblers should pay income tax.

I agree in principal but the enforcement and paperwork associated with this would be a nightmare and would probably cost way more than it generates.  Kind of like how the state pension/free TV license isn't means tested so just given to everyone even if they are multi-millionaires.

Also the amount of professional gamblers is actually quite small, how many in total in the UK?  A few thousand?  The govt still rakes 50% of income in live casinos don't they, and 15% of online profits?  Most pro gamblers will have paid more in tax than the avg person via this route, plus the makeup demographics of them will mean that they don't use as many public services as the avg person too (male, between 20 and 40 and without kids).

The average pro gambler def lives in a bubble and they should donate to charity or volunteer tho as its a very selfish industry and perspective is required.

That's hilarious. Just publish a set of rules and then make it self assessment. It pretty much runs itself until you investigate someone.

Easiest way is to make gamblers register as sole traders. You'd have income and expenses the same as every other sole trader in the country and yes if you made a loss one year you could roll it over for tax purposes. All the paperwork is the responsibility of the gambler and they probably need an accountant to help with the year end return. The cost to HMRC though is negligible compared to the revenue generated.

Sure you can just lie but so can everyone else in every other business. It's the risk of getting caught that makes everyone tell the truth and the same would go for the gamblers.

It'll happen one day so make the most of it while you can.

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scotty77
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« Reply #115 on: August 07, 2017, 07:29:05 PM »

Isn't the main argument that if you taxed pro gamblers, then you'd have to give the average punter the opportunity to claim back their loses too, hence why the Govt go for taxing the companies instead?

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4KSuited
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« Reply #116 on: August 07, 2017, 07:34:49 PM »

British professional gamblers should pay income tax.

I agree in principal but the enforcement and paperwork associated with this would be a nightmare and would probably cost way more than it generates.  Kind of like how the state pension/free TV license isn't means tested so just given to everyone even if they are multi-millionaires.

Also the amount of professional gamblers is actually quite small, how many in total in the UK?  A few thousand?  The govt still rakes 50% of income in live casinos don't they, and 15% of online profits?  Most pro gamblers will have paid more in tax than the avg person via this route, plus the makeup demographics of them will mean that they don't use as many public services as the avg person too (male, between 20 and 40 and without kids).

The average pro gambler def lives in a bubble and they should donate to charity or volunteer tho as its a very selfish industry and perspective is required.

The govt take from casinos and online is actually money from all the losing gamblers. Those that win are not being taxed in any way.

I think it should be a matter of conscience. Those (e.g. Channing, nice bloke that he is) that make chunks from gambling whilst constantly tweeting about how everyone should vote for a socialist agenda that will cost taxpayers a fortune, should be self-declaring their income in order to pay tax & make a fair contribution to all those costly policies they're supporting. I'd hate to think that they're expecting the rest of us to pay for their largesse.

No doubt NC pays tax on his other businesses (e.g. BE), but I would suspect that that only represents a small part of his total income. Also, if such a high profile figure as him volunteered to pay tax, then perhaps there would be others with consciences who would follow. Maybe even some Tory-voting-fascist-fatcats who want to appear a little more caring?
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Junior Senior
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« Reply #117 on: August 07, 2017, 07:38:41 PM »

This thread should not have been started
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scotty77
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« Reply #118 on: August 07, 2017, 07:41:56 PM »

The govt take from casinos and online is actually money from all the losing gamblers. Those that win are not being taxed in any way.

It's the winners of the pot in a live cash hand that pay the rake.

Tournie entry fees are obv the same for everyone.
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« Reply #119 on: August 07, 2017, 07:48:23 PM »

The govt take from casinos and online is actually money from all the losing gamblers. Those that win are not being taxed in any way.

It's the winners of the pot in a live cash hand that pay the rake.

Tournie entry fees are obv the same for everyone.

The tax is levied on profits across the casino's entire operations, I think. The vast bulk of their profits come from the pit games and slots. Yes, there's a little from the poker room, but the rake & registration fees probably only just cover the overheads of the room. What the casinos hope is that the players who actually win at poker step outside and lose it back in the pit. We've all heard the stories.

So, I maintain that the tax levied on casinos and online bookmakers is largely funded by losing punters.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 07:53:48 PM by 4KSuited » Logged
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