Yeah where is the next one?
I thought this thread was really interesting. It shows the very different attitudes that exist between players.
For instance this train of thought is a world apart from how I think. Not knocking it of course.
I don't really get why raising preflop is considered a good play here?
I raise pre-flop because I feel I have the best hand. A correct assumption in fact. So why not raise with the best hand and take the initiative here, particularly when you are going to be oop throughout the hand?
Yes you have the slight best of it. Could be argued that position negates the small % you are favourite here but fair enough you are ahead preflop.
Surely creating big pots oop with marginal hands against aggressive opponents is the way to bleed chips pretty fast....
I am not necessarily looking to create a big pot. I am giving myself a chance to win the pot right now. I am asking whether my opponent wants to play against me with a weaker hand. Does Peter want to call a raise with his Q-7? If he doesn't...I win the hand. If he does...let's go.
Laggy scandinavian calling raise with weaker hand hoping to outplay your hand with position? I agree unlikely. He's most likely waiting for aces..............
By raising you are increasing the pot size. I could go into details about why, using citations from maths texts concerning the execution of various mathematical operators. To cut a long, probably hideously dull story short though, I'll leave it with 2*2=4.
The size of the pot on future streets is a function of activity on earlier streets. This CAN result in checking creating a LARGER pot by the river, for instance a check may encourage an opponent to fire 2 bullets rather than one at a pot. In general though, creating a larger pot preflop and on the flop will result in a significantly larger pot by the river as bet sizes will also increase. If a pot is 10k preflop, the size of the pot by the river will generally be smaller than if the pot is 20k preflop.
I like the limp preflop too as it controls pot size
I just can't see how you limping pre-flop is controlling the size of the pot. As soon as you limp your opponent is in total control of the size of the pot. If I was the BB in this hand, same conditions, chips etc...I raise your limp. So now I control the pot size. Are you calling my raise oop? If the BB checks it is he who has decided to keep the pot small not you.
Yes, being in position offers you a much better opportunity to control pot size, that's life in poker. It goes to show how important position is. Using tools like the check raise, slowplay and small lead/ 3bet are ways to counter it but there's no denying a good player has a big advantage in position.
So you raise if I limp....Position raise.... When i spot you breaking your Oreo without putting it to your ear, I check raise you allin and you pay the stupid cat his money. ..
This is hypothetical. Maybe I limped to exploit a position raise by cr'ing, maybe I limped to play possum only to make a play at a later hand.
There are different reasons to limp in blind situations that don't necessarily mean weakness. But as a general rule you extend pot control and with marginal hands with some sort of strength, I like it as you disguise the hand.
Being results-orientated is not a good way to analyse hands(see later) but you'll notice this aggressive opponent didn't raise here, so the pot was kept small with a marginal hand. Hmmm interesting.....
If Peter does call then my raise pre-flop has set up my post-flop continuation bet. Is my opponent going to remain interested in the hand on the flop with Q-7? I personally don't think so. So if I didn't win the hand pre-flop I win the hand on the flop. Not raising means missing 2 chances to win a hand that Thang lost. That is why I raise.
Right, so raising preflop and continuation betting a random board is keeping the pot small?
By the time you continuation bet the flop, a half pot bet to full pot bet is 40-75k. This is a decent proportion of your chips that you are now putting in blind. If called you will be playing for the bulk of your stack most likely if you bet on future streets.
"Is my opponent going to remain interested in the hand on the flop with Q-7?"
It's a good read that he has Q7! Wow, it's almost like you could see his hand already.... Give my regards to Lois Lane and Lex Luther. I hope you use your x-ray vision for good though and not just to look down Jennifer Tilley's top.
You don't know his hand. It is almost random. You are betting a large % of your stack with little or no information on his hand.
By raising preflop you have a situation where you stick a large amount of chips in blind out of position, with possibly the best hand, yet one where you can be blown off without knowing where you are.
Against a weaker opponent then raising is probably not so bad as you pick up the pot much more often preflop and he is less likely to play back at you so your decisions are more cut and dried.
The only way to disguise a raggy ace is to limp with it
I don't think a raggy ace is strong enough to disguise. E.g. He raises you fold.
You increase the strength of a marginal hand by disguising the situation when an ace flops as you now have a relatively STRONG hand yet one he will be less likely to beleive and more likely to put chips in, in bad shape.
it could be argued Thang played the hand well
I said in my posts that he played the hand poorly and would probably get outdrawn on the river....he got outdrawn on the river.
Cool. I'm surprised you don't win the lottery every week with this insight. I guess you spread them out a bit so no one gets suspicious. Now that's good thinking sir!
You don't know the river card till it comes out. Being outdrawn is not necessarily a bad thing in poker and certainly not a guarenteed mark of poor play. Usually the reverse in fact.
So although I don't agree with this post I still found it interesting. More importantly I have put the reasons why I don't agree.
Fair enough! Me too
Good thread though i must say.