Why is the APAT payout structure so top heavy ?

[Colchester Kev]

Just wondered how far APAT /APL is down the line?

You have tied up deals with Pokerstars and PokerPlayer Mag for APL
You have now got significant members
You have had your inaugrial comp
The site is all up and running
Spokespeople have been assigned

Have you got any contacts with the Gaming Commission?
If so who, and will they listen?

I cannot play any of these events, but do I need to join to find out what is happening in the poker world?

And what do you have for breakfast when you run out of cornflakes ?

And can you reveal all your existing contacts and potential contacts and also every other potential avenue you may be going down in the forseeable future as this will help me in setting up a rival organisation.

Many thanks.

[dik9]

You are barking up the wrong tree Kev


If APA is doing what I wanted to do, and it is a success, why should I try and do something and confuse the issue.
Just wondered how far the Association was as oppossed to the tour?

[Colchester Kev]

You are barking up the wrong tree Kev

No ... Just barking

[Royal Flush]

Flushy I don't know you well enough to tell if you are being sarcastic but your attitude towards the APAT really stinks. If you don't like it why not constructively critcize or keep quiet?

Eh? I offered an alternative payout structure? How constructive do i need to be?

Agreed ifm. But, sat where we are, do you really think "Its not that hard is it?", after we've worked our nuts off to get it right, is helpful?

Please read below Tikay.

Just by reading the posts, it looks like "It's not hard is it " comment was aimed at Ironsides "can i suggest though instead of just making posts being critical please offer solutions i m sure that the APAt team will listen", I just thought it was banter between them two, and not aimed at APAt. Especially as he was quoted in the post? Maybe I am just being naive.

Waaahey we have a winner!



I am not going to post anymore on the APAT thread's i get accused of sniping, as do all the posters who disagree with what is said. This time i even pot forward an alternate payout structure and was told i wasn't being constructive (i don't know your members but from the responses i have had no-one has told me they prefer the APAT structure to the one i suggested)

I will still continue to suggest idea to APAT but i won't be doing it on here, i think they have a good idea, i know Richard and Tikay well and met Des at BB3. I want to see this thing succeed, to do that we cant all be 'yes men' i know i am not eligible to be a member of APAT however i feel i have more in common with the APAT members than circuit pro's

I am off out to play in casino tonight that always has a friendly atmosphere, a good structure (1500 chips for £20) a 75-150 level and it adds money to the prizepool. Aswell as treating players with respect. At the moment i hope APAT doesn't suggest anything to them! Is that sniping or is that being honest?



P.S. Tikay, tell us about the Train....

[dik9]

P.S. Tikay, tell us about the Train....

Is that a snipe at his anorak?

[boldie]

P.S. Tikay, tell us about the Train....

Is that a snipe at his anorak?

no it wouldn't be...I asked Tikay when he said he had to catch a train to tell us about it when he got back...I am guessing FLushy is an anxious as I am for a good train story.

[roverthtaeh]

Fascinating debate. Just read the diverse view points.
I played in the event, it was my first ever time in a casino, and my first ever live game that hasn't involved half a million
all-ins.
I got up at 4am on Saturday morning and drove all the way from Cornwall to play. And here's why;
1) I knew the standard would be high and I wanted to find out just how good or bad a player I was.
2) I wanted to experience live play in a casino.
3) I hoped to make some new poker friends.
As things turned out, I did pretty well. I made Day 2 and was chuffed to bits.
At no time during the entire weekend did the payout structure cross my mind. I wasn't there for the money.
In my view, the APAT was set up to offer the likes of me a chance to play proper poker against proper poker players. And this it achieved with flying colours. Every member of the team went out of their way to make me feel welcome. Every player I spoke to was friendly. People made new friends, of that I am sure.
On Day 2, things went well for me and I made the final table.
Did my gameplan or attitude change now that there was money involved?
No, it certainly did not.
Yes, we all play to win. And we play to win money, that's the nature of the game. But on the world's ladder of poker, I stand on the bottom rung. I had made the top 10 of English Amateur players, and whilst that won't pay my mortgage, I wouldn't have swapped it for a thousand pounds. As Mr Kendall said on the night, 'that will never be taken away from you'.
I fully understand the reasoning behind the payout structure, and I also understand the views of being equally rewarded for 4th through 9th positions. But personally, it wouldn't have mattered. Just being able to say I was 4th in England, instead of 9th in England would have been enough for me.
I finished 9th. The money I won was a complete bonus. If the prizes had been a box of chocolates down to a stick of chewing gum, I would still have gone to Birmingham to play.
And that's my viewpoint, as a player in the event.
Guarantee me a seat in the next one, I guarantee I will be there. Whatever the payout may be.

[Ironside]

flushy thanks for your constructive post on the structure even if the banter was miss read,

richard and tony have both said they didnt hear any complaints about the payouts this is correct

however they did hear me bring up the subject of it being top heavy and thatit needed to be flatterend for future events

just to allow people to cover costs (espically for the euriopean event)

i for one liked the fact it was a top heavy payout as allthough i am still new to poker

i did think that amongst the final 9 i was amongst the most comfotaable in the enviroment.

i LOVED the flat bottom where 9-4 got the same payment it encouraged poker

very similiar to 2 tables out in the vic when 18-10 get the same money people play to get chips

as if they bust outnext or in 2 hours time they are getting the same money

so i would like to see a payout simliar to a normal fessie where each seat gets a ladder climb

as people are then waiting for people to bust allowing the rich to keep getting richer

so my view is less top heavy so that the finalists are not out of pocket for the weekend

but keep it flat at the bottom to encourage people to play

[Bigfella]

As they didn't pay 116th place at APAT 1, I left empty handed. What has not been debated for APAT 2 (on this post) is the fact that event 2 will in all likelyhood have 5 times as many runners. So, how many places should be paid if there are say 600 entrants. Top 10% would seem reasonable wouldn't it?

[mikkyT]

10% would be my guess.

Was there 100 runners for APAT 1? So that was about 10% prizes.

[AdamM]

I didn't get drawn to play the event in Birmingham. If I had I wouldn't have checked the payout structure before playing because APA are setting out their stall to provide the best tournament structure for the player. I'd have turned up and paid my £75 and then later I'd have been horrified when I saw the payout structure.

Flushies suggested payout structure (which, dispite the (not hard" comment is still offering a constructive alternative) with an EPT package for 1st place still makes it effectively a very top heavy payout and certainly something to make everyone play for the win rather than play just to cash. 50% for 1st in a 120 seat tourney is not what I'm for. if it were £20 / £30 I might agree but for £75 I think a fair final table payout isn't too much to ask for.  I look forward to an APA vote on the matter. It may well go against me by the looks of this thread.

please resist the temptation to accuse those in favour of a flatter structure of sniping or being unconstructive. It's a fair point and however it's phrased their (our) opinions on the matter should be welcome.

[TightEnd]

please resist the temptation to accuse those in favour of a flatter structure of sniping or being unconstructive. It's a fair point and however it's phrased their (our) opinions on the matter should be welcome.

I have consistently welcomed all feedback and will continue to do so.

Hope you can make/get into the Scottish event Adam

[Karabiner]

I didn't get drawn to play the event in Birmingham. If I had I wouldn't have checked the payout structure before playing because APA are setting out their stall to provide the best tournament structure for the player. I'd have turned up and paid my £75 and then later I'd have been horrified when I saw the payout structure.

Flushies suggested payout structure (which, dispite the (not hard" comment is still offering a constructive alternative) with an EPT package for 1st place still makes it effectively a very top heavy payout and certainly something to make everyone play for the win rather than play just to cash. 50% for 1st in a 120 seat tourney is not what I'm for. if it were £20 / £30 I might agree but for £75 I think a fair final table payout isn't too much to ask for.  I look forward to an APA vote on the matter. It may well go against me by the looks of this thread.

please resist the temptation to accuse those in favour of a flatter structure of sniping or being unconstructive. It's a fair point and however it's phrased their (our) opinions on the matter should be welcome.

I could not agree more wholeheartedly Adam, that is exactly how I feel.

For some reason I have been thinking that this is starting to sound like Animal Farm.

"Four legs good two legs bad" closely followed by "Four legs good two legs better"

[FlyingPig]

I played in the APAT event in Birmingham and finshed 6th. The payout structure never bothered me. It is an amateur event, we are not paying mega bucks to enter a competition. It cost us 75 pound and 1st prize was definately worth winning. 2nd prize was enough money and the falt bottom prize for 9th through to 4th (or whatever it was) was absolutley great. As people have said before me it encouraged poker. No one was haging on thinking HHmmmmm if I hang on and fold this AK that fella in seat 4 has hardly got any chips and I can wait for him to go out to get an extra 100 quid in prize money. If you were there and played you will know there was no issure (with anyone I could see) with the payout.

If you want big payouts go and play in the EPT events. These APAT events gives us amateur players big prizes, worthy prizes that we would never normally get a sniff at - a chance of winning for the measly entry fee of £75.

And for me it was not about the money - I just wanted that big medal around my neck to walk into work on the Monday and say ' Wehey I am the English Amateur Poker Champion' - and the trip to Copenhagen would of been a great bonus.....

Unfortunatley I never got one..... Does anyone have one to sell..... HAHA......

[Bongo]

You could still have all the medals and EPT trip and a great first prize with a flatter structure though.

Heck, i'd love to win a seat to an EPT event and the title of amateur champion and if I made the final at an apat event i'd be trying my hardest to win but that doesn't mean I wouldn't prefer a flatter prize structure too!