88% Concentration blogger aka Bluescouse finally busto.

[Woodsey]

You can win a million quid, but if you end up with nothing, then you're not a good player in my book. Poker and how good you are is a long term assessment in my opinion.

Stu Ungar? TJ Cloutier?

Did they blow their bankroll at the poker table?  Cloutier got rid of his money playing craps I believe.  That's daft, but different to playing outside of your bankroll and blowing it playing poker. 

Both are daft of course, but different issues (IMHO).

All part of being a professional gambler I'm afraid, and they in particular should know better, you just can't separate them out if its what you do for a living.

[snoopy1239]

You can win a million quid, but if you end up with nothing, then you're not a good player in my book. Poker and how good you are is a long term assessment in my opinion.

Stu Ungar? TJ Cloutier?

Did they blow their bankroll at the poker table?  Cloutier got rid of his money playing craps I believe.  That's daft, but different to playing outside of your bankroll and blowing it playing poker. 

Both are daft of course, but different issues (IMHO).

All part of being a professional gambler I'm afraid, and they in particular should know better, you just can't separate them out if its what you do for a living.

They lost their money playing craps, betting on horses and doing drugs. The discussion, I assumed, was to whether or not Ed Hollis is a good poker player.

[snoopy1239]

You can win a million quid, but if you end up with nothing, then you're not a good player in my book. Poker and how good you are is a long term assessment in my opinion.

Exactly, he doesnt have nothing, he has a house half paid for and 45k in his poker account.

Well, again, that's short term. There's a good chance he'll do his bollox and have to sell his assets. That, for me, doesn't make him a good poker player, as his profit will ultimately be zip. A good poker player, in my opinion, is someone who wins over a long period of time. Chip Reese was once asked if some young hotshot was a good player, and Chip replied, "Ask me again in thirty years".

[jakally]

How much money a player makes, or doesn't make, is a poor way of judging whether they are a good poker player or not, IMO.

A player who makes money is often simply playing against people of an inferior standard.

[Woodsey]

You can win a million quid, but if you end up with nothing, then you're not a good player in my book. Poker and how good you are is a long term assessment in my opinion.

Stu Ungar? TJ Cloutier?

Did they blow their bankroll at the poker table?  Cloutier got rid of his money playing craps I believe.  That's daft, but different to playing outside of your bankroll and blowing it playing poker. 

Both are daft of course, but different issues (IMHO).

All part of being a professional gambler I'm afraid, and they in particular should know better, you just can't separate them out if its what you do for a living.

They lost their money playing craps, betting on horses and doing drugs. The discussion, I assumed, was to whether or not Ed Hollis is a good poker player.

But its all relevant. Ted Forrest is one of the best out there yet he was known to have sat with his entire BR when he played against Andy Beal, same principle really and even the top pros wouldn't call Ted a bad player.

[snoopy1239]

How much money a player makes, or doesn't make, is a poor way of judging whether they are a good poker player or not, IMO.

A player who makes money is often simply playing against people of an inferior standard.

I thinks that's where I disagree and the reason why we could go round in circles. For me, poker is about money and making a profit and although you might be the most skilled, it doesn't necessary make you the best. If you are the tenth most talented player in the world but are playing on a table with the 9 most talented, then that's bad table selection and, in my opinion, not the the make up of a good poker player. It's the same with tilt - for me, you are bad poker player if, even with all the weapons in your arsenal, you tilt off all your money after a bead beat.

Interesting debate though, I can certainly see where you're coming from.

[suzanne]

Does anyone here know the guy personally?

I managed to find a piccy of him a while back...hes a skinny, long haired youngster who with a little bit of grooming could be a contender for the boy band ;-)

[WellChief]

I've played him before and watched him last night, he's a decent player 3-handed and very tough to play against if you're not hitting cards.  6-handed he's not so good as he bluffs too much and can't lay a hand. 

[sovietsong]

I've played him before and watched him last night, he's a decent player 3-handed and very tough to play against if you're not hitting cards.  6-handed he's not so good as he bluffs too much and can't lay a hand. 

what name is he playing under!  If you dont want to 'out' him PM me!  I fancy watching him play

[Tragic]

My guess on crypto is Eddie7 but I could be wrong.

[thetank]

I'm with Snoopy, money is how we keep score. How else do you judge who is best?

The poker world is so full of ego and guaging skill levels to differentiate between a very very good player and a very very very good player is impossibly impractical. The better one is the one who has won the most money off the game.

Possible exception is that you could say someone was the best tournament poker player in the world even though they happen to be skint right now. (They've got to have won a heaps of big money tournies in the past though)

[MKKfish]

How much money a player makes, or doesn't make, is a poor way of judging whether they are a good poker player or not, IMO.

A player who makes money is often simply playing against people of an inferior standard.

If you are the tenth most talented player in the world but are playing on a table with the 9 most talented, then that's bad table selection and, in my opinion, not the the make up of a good poker player.

Probably the best one line piece of advice I've seen.

[kinboshi]

I'm with Snoopy, money is how we keep score. How else do you judge who is best?

The poker world is so full of ego and guaging skill levels to differentiate between a very very good player and a very very very good player is impossibly impractical. The better one is the one who has won the most money off the game.

Possible exception is that you could say someone was the best tournament poker player in the world even though they happen to be skint right now. (They've got to have won a heaps of big money tournies in the past though)

Cloutier is a fine example of that.  $8M (or something like that) that he's won in tournaments.  Money he's then taken away from poker and 'spent' on craps (he could have spent it on women, drink and fast cars rather than squandering it), but no one can say he isn't a top tournament player.  I know what Woodsey is saying when he's says it's part and parcel of him being a professional gambler - but I think the fact he has no will power away from the poker table shouldn't detract from his poker ability/achievements.  Whereas this bluescouse fella not only supports a terrible football team, but certainly has a huge gap in his 'poker' ability in his inability to manage his bankroll.  I'd love to have his skill and ability at the table, but I guess the flip-side of his gambling ability is his inability to control himself in his game choice.

[MKKfish]

The TJ Poker/Craps thing is a bit daft.

A guy pulls down £5 mill a year running a hedge fund but spunks it away at roulette..

..so is he a bad hedge fund manager?

[thetank]

If he needs the $5m (or at least part of it) to buy him into next years lol hedgefundaments then perhaps.

That's the difference, yes you can be good at your job and then piss away your money, it doesn't make you any less good at your job

but....

You need to take care of your tools. The world's greatest builder wouldn't get hired if he totalled a couple of JCBs a week.
A poker player's bankroll is his tool.

A fine line, and an interesting debate. Someone who won millions in cash games and pissed most of it away could still be a great player if they always had enough to play the game.