QQ quandary

[M3boy]

I take your point.

If's but's and maybe's

Each to their own

[TightPaulFolds]

Those are some great posts, johnbhoy, and I agree with everything you say. 3 handed at this stage of the game there is just no way I am letting that BB in for free, or for that matter, the button. Although the button limp felt a bit odd in the general context of play, I actually wanted to take the pot preflop and put in a bet I figured would push off a limper, and I was going to be position-crippled throughout the hand, as you say.
What you say about late game button-limpers not necessarily being AA is of course totally correct. But looking at his distinctive pattern of play, which I tried to show in my original post, something was already wrong, limping is not his style. The reraise should have set off alarms.

[M3boy]

My point was, once you raise here, you have committed alot of your remaining stack - so why not push preflop if you want to take it there and then?

[WellChief]

Probably because its folded round to the button and you want some VALUE out your premium hand.  Then to say if you decided to check (which would be slow play in this case) and the flop came A Q 2 or something, that would be the worst flop  possible for you??   I honestly thought that you were joking when you said that the first time.


In fact - I've decided this is a topic designed to wind up up Flushy.

[M3boy]

Probably because its folded round to the button and you want some VALUE out your premium hand.  Then to say if you decided to check (which would be slow play in this case) and the flop came A Q 2 or something, that would be the worst flop  possible for you??   I honestly thought that you were joking when you said that the first time.


In fact - I've decided this is a topic designed to wind up up Flushy.

 

[Royal Flush]

In fact - I've decided this is a topic designed to wind up up Flushy.

I've been thinking the same!

Remind me if i need someone to play for my life that i should ask on 2+2!


And yes doubleup i was aware the question was talking about a TAG.

A line of thought for TAG with 88....."Hey i have 88 on the button, that's a good hand i should raise.....oh wait what if they thing i am nicking, then i will have to call a re-raise with 88 for the rest of my chips, and i read on a poker forum that i should never call for my chips (except maybe with suited aces) its all about 'getting it in first' ok i know what i will do i will limp it in, see a cheap flop and use my position. What's this, a raise from the SB, he could have a big range here, there is lots of dead money in this pot and now i have a chance to make him pass his probable 2 overs and take down a nice pot uncontested, there we go the BB has passed, i'm all in!"

Then he sits pissing himself laughing when he reads about how QQ passed.

[Raindogs]

A line of thought for TAG with 88....."Hey i have 88 on the button, that's a good hand i should raise.....oh wait what if they thing i am nicking, then i will have to call a re-raise with 88 for the rest of my chips, and i read on a poker forum that i should never call for my chips (except maybe with suited aces) its all about 'getting it in first' ok i know what i will do i will limp it in, see a cheap flop and use my position. What's this, a raise from the SB, he could have a big range here, there is lots of dead money in this pot and now i have a chance to make him pass his probable 2 overs and take down a nice pot uncontested, there we go the BB has passed, i'm all in!"

....  and here is the rather embarrassing proof  (Flushy, tell me someone didn't post this on 2+2 for a laugh !!)

Seat 1: diicman (7325 in chips)
Seat 2: abel (10810 in chips)
Seat 3: hillbilly06 (5400 in chips)
Seat 4: tommern2k (16835 in chips)
Seat 5: soreanus (6380 in chips)
Seat 6: malteg (3435 in chips)
Seat 7: AtteG (8385 in chips)
Seat 8: Raindog2 (6570 in chips)
Seat 9: 17161514 (13275 in chips)
diicman: posts small blind 75
abel: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Raindog2 [ ]
hillbilly06: folds
tommern2k: folds
soreanus: folds
malteg: folds
AtteG: folds
Raindog2: calls 150
17161514: folds
diicman: calls 75
abel: raises 750 to 900
Raindog2: raises 5670 to 6570 and is all-in
diicman: folds
abel: calls 5670
*** FLOP *** [ ]
*** TURN *** [ ] []
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
*** SHOW DOWN ***
abel: shows [ ] (a pair of Queens)
Raindog2: shows [ ] (a pair of Eights)
abel collected 13290 from pot


However in the OP, against a non Donkey opponent, folding the Q's would be a great pass IMO.  There is not much point trying to read opponents if you are going to ignore it when you have a good hand.  For every Donkey imagining the BB is imposing limpers tax there will also be trappy players with A's or K's.  Being able to make that distinction is what makes a great Poker player.

[Royal Flush]

  Being able to make that distinction is what makes a great Poker player.

Guessing right is not what makes a player great, a great player is someone who weighs stuff up on the balance of probabilities and makes an educated guess.

[Highstack]

  Being able to make that distinction is what makes a great Poker player.

Guessing right is not what makes a player great, a great player is someone who weighs stuff up on the balance of probabilities and makes an educated guess.

Yep ... although sometimes it is a lot easier. They might as well be playing face up.

[doubleup]

Flushy

TAGS don't think that way

Raindogs

This is a completely different situation - the tournament is not at the stage when raise or fold is the only normal pre-flop action.

[Royal Flush]

Flushy

TAGS don't think that way

Raindogs

This is a completely different situation - the tournament is not at the stage when raise or fold is the only normal pre-flop action.

I have friends who are TAG's......


lol seriously though i used to be a TAG, really i did.

Plenty of TAG's follow that line of thought, not shit TAG's good TAG's, don't confuse moron rocks with a TAG.

[doubleup]

Flushy

TAGS don't think that way

Raindogs

This is a completely different situation - the tournament is not at the stage when raise or fold is the only normal pre-flop action.

I have friends who are TAG's......


lol seriously though i used to be a TAG, really i did.

Plenty of TAG's follow that line of thought, not shit TAG's good TAG's, don't confuse moron rocks with a TAG.

Playing 88 this way at this stage in online tournament is insane - the whole point about the play is that it is very difficult for the raiser from the blinds to fold - hence the debate we are having.  Why in gods name would you want to engineer yourself into a situation where you are either in a race or behind?

[Royal Flush]

Flushy

TAGS don't think that way

Raindogs

This is a completely different situation - the tournament is not at the stage when raise or fold is the only normal pre-flop action.

I have friends who are TAG's......


lol seriously though i used to be a TAG, really i did.

Plenty of TAG's follow that line of thought, not shit TAG's good TAG's, don't confuse moron rocks with a TAG.

Playing 88 this way at this stage in online tournament is insane - the whole point about the play is that it is very difficult for the raiser from the blinds to fold - hence the debate we are having.  Why in gods name would you want to engineer yourself into a situation where you are either in a race or behind?

I will continue debating as if he was a TAG, but the OP suggests otherwise.

Why does it have to be a race or a 20-80, and why cant the SB fold (assuming he has air)

[totalise]

the problem with raising QQ here is that you are effectively turning your hand into 2/7os, as the button limp is AA or a hand with potential, so limp along with QQ, and adhere to the no set no bet mantra. This is especially true if they guy has been raising the blinds frequently prior to this hand... why would he raise AA when he has a history of raising from the button?

[doubleup]

Flushy

TAGS don't think that way

Raindogs

This is a completely different situation - the tournament is not at the stage when raise or fold is the only normal pre-flop action.

I have friends who are TAG's......


lol seriously though i used to be a TAG, really i did.

Plenty of TAG's follow that line of thought, not shit TAG's good TAG's, don't confuse moron rocks with a TAG.

Playing 88 this way at this stage in online tournament is insane - the whole point about the play is that it is very difficult for the raiser from the blinds to fold - hence the debate we are having.  Why in gods name would you want to engineer yourself into a situation where you are either in a race or behind?

I will continue debating as if he was a TAG, but the OP suggests otherwise.

Why does it have to be a race or a 20-80, and why cant the SB fold (assuming he has air)

Because the blinds very rarely raise with air here - they are doing a little jig of joy in front of their pc cos they've got to see a flop for the first time in an hour.