General Fighting thread

[AdamM]

My guess is Lesnar will be signed for 3 main event fights, then re-negotiate (b bye).
I'd like to see a decent striker take him apart next.
Arlovski, Kongo, Cro Cop, Alexander, Sylvia. Easy win for any of them.
Hopefuly they don't just give him some journeyman.

[scotty2hatty]

Lesnar FTW

[thediceman]

Why shouldn't Brock given some journeyman for a few fights, the guys a rookie in MMA and it's natural for guys to work their way up the ladder. Should a rookie really be thrown in the deep end. Mirs experience and Brocks inexperience were the real telling factors in that fight. Mir was also quite possibly one of the most difficult fights out there for Brock as Mirs technical ability is somewhat better than most other heavyweights. Brocks got a lot to learn and maybe he will never have the technical abilty to succeed in the sport but just enjoyed watching him ground and pound like a mad man just like I use to watch Tank Abbott do. I'm sure Brock could have some success against many other heavyweights.

Re: Mazzagatti, once I saw he was the ref I was worried. The guy is awful and is always jumping early and stopping fights or making other questionable decisions.

What with the choice of opponent and ref I wonder if Dana has a plan to bury Brock showing that wrestling is unable to compete with MMA's. Cash in on the hype, bury the opposition (entertainment wrestling) plus giving creditibilty to MMA as the real deal isn't such a bad plan. Just an idea.   

[AdamM]

Why shouldn't Brock given some journeyman for a few fights, the guys a rookie in MMA and it's natural for guys to work their way up the ladder. Should a rookie really be thrown in the deep end. Mirs experience and Brocks inexperience were the real telling factors in that fight. Mir was also quite possibly one of the most difficult fights out there for Brock as Mirs technical ability is somewhat better than most other heavyweights. Brocks got a lot to learn and maybe he will never have the technical abilty to succeed in the sport but just enjoyed watching him ground and pound like a mad man just like I use to watch Tank Abbott do. I'm sure Brock could have some success against many other heavyweights.

Re: Mazzagatti, once I saw he was the ref I was worried. The guy is awful and is always jumping early and stopping fights or making other questionable decisions.

What with the choice of opponent and ref I wonder if Dana has a plan to bury Brock showing that wrestling is unable to compete with MMA's. Cash in on the hype, bury the opposition (entertainment wrestling) plus giving creditibilty to MMA as the real deal isn't such a bad plan. Just an idea.   

nail struck firmly on the head.

Lesnar wanted to get into MMA and saw himself as an automatic contender for the title. The guy has no business being in the cage with fighters like Mir. If he'd started from the bottom and worked his way up, fair enough, good luck to him. He's in at the deep end because that's where he thinks he belongs.

I think if a top boxer showed an interest in stepping in the cage, Dana White would go about it the same way. Same result too.

[AdamM]

up coming betting opportunities

UFC 82
Henderson v Silva are both at 1.6. I'm hoping to wave 1.8 under a Henderson fan's nose. Silva is going to kill him
Kongo v Herring. Kongo is odds on at the minute but if I can get anywhere near even money, I'm on it.
I'm hoping to get some action on Tanner v Okami. Okami is a young strong Japanese fighter who's only loss so far is to Rich Franklin. Tanner however, is an old dog, coming back from serious long term injury. The difference though, is that 3 of Okami's 5 wins are by judges decision and the other two finished late. 9 of Tanners 11 UFC wins are well inside the distance. Tanner finishes fights and I think he's a good bet to finish this one.

UFC 83
Serra has opened up at 3.5 against St Pierre. I think St Pierre is favourite but 3.5 is inflated. I might be tempted to dip my toes in that.

Ultimate fight night.
don't know how the betting will go, but I think this will be an easy win for Stephan Bonnar against Matt Hamill.

Cage Rage 25
these events get hardly any betting on betfair but if I can generate some,
Ken Shamrock surely walks through Buzz Berry. Happy to be proved wrong, but if I can get evens on Ken I will.

[thediceman]

Looks like another former WWE superstar might be trying his luck at MMA.

"California based company Zinkin Entertainment & Sports Management has taken on Bobby Lashley as a client. This is the same company who handles clients such as Chuck Liddell, Forrest Griffin, Josh Koscheck, and Mike Swick.

Although nothing is confirmed, the fact that the company took Lashley on could hint on where Lashley would go now that his WWE release is official. Lashley did express interest in jumping to MMA on his web site."

[AdamM]

who's bobby lashley?

[thediceman]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Lashley

Basically another big son of a bitch like Brock. 

[scotty2hatty]

Bob Sapp v. Kimo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4bhx3uiEFM&feature=related

Brilliant entertainment

[AdamM]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Lashley

Basically another big son of a bitch like Brock. 

well I hope for his sake he's allowed to start nearer to the bottom of the ladder than Lesnar, otherwise it's more cannon fodder.

Not sure why we need these WWE guys coming in. I'd think MMA would gain more credibility by getting in big name boxers and destroying them, rather than entertainment wrestlers.

Ah well, I'm sure Dana knows what he's doing.

[thediceman]

Not sure why we need these WWE guys coming in. I'd think MMA would gain more credibility by getting in big name boxers and destroying them, rather than entertainment wrestlers.

I can think of a few reasons why WWE guys are considering moving to MMA. Firstly they are sick and tried of being treated like crap by Vince McMahon, secondly top WWE wrestlers don't make as much as they did a few years ago, thirdly they have to sell their complete marketing rights to Vince's already blugging pockets. Also and propably the main reason is that the WWE travelling schedule is ridiculous. With the freedom of being to make money from advertising and the growing money in MMA these guys can have a better lifestyle.

Also many of these "entertainment wrestlers" actually have very impressive wrestling backgrounds and with training I believe they can compete given time. I personally think considering their backgrounds they actually have a better chance than big name boxers who are so limited in their style that they would struggle against the numerous MMA styles. Most boxers I've seen try MMA just get taken to the ground and submitted normally in the first minute.

As for Bob Sapp I hear the WWE are interested in him. The guy is so funny and gets tried just carrying his own body weight. His interviews are also some of the most bizarre I've seen. Sapp's probably more suited to entertainment world rather than really acheiving anything in MMA. I would however much prefer to see Lesnar and Sapp have a crude slugfest rather than watch a Stevenson vs Sanchaz hugging competition.

[vegaslover]

Not sure why we need these WWE guys coming in. I'd think MMA would gain more credibility by getting in big name boxers and destroying them, rather than entertainment wrestlers.

I'd say that most boxers are sensible enough to realise there are fights that they can't win, whereas wrestlers generally only know about the fame, money, and entertainment. Most of em are used to losing..lol

While lashley is bigger and stronger than Lesnar, he doesn't have any of his wrestling skills or mobility. Will get put into submissions anytime he comes up against someone half decent imho.

[AdamM]

something I posted on the facebook UFC group. I'd be interested in a response from UFC and Boxing fans about this:

Something Joe Rogan said in UFC 81 commentry was very true. Western fight fans are focused on the record and the titles. In the east, it's about the fight. doesn't matter how many wins and loses, if the fighter puts it all out on the line, they should be admired and we should want to see them again.

Franklin may NEVER beat Silva, but he's an awesome fighter and can produce thrilling fights. Cro cop is doing badly in UFC, but I still get excited about him fighting. Matt Serra might not be as technically gifted and GSP but that doesn't make him undeserving of his title and I love to see him fight. Chuck may never regain his dominance of LHW division, but I'll never miss a fight until he retires. Tim silvia may be big and clumsy looking, but why hate him? He comes across as a really nice guy and gives it everything so he should still receive our respect.

I think people are missing the point with these bouts.
take each match as a stand alone evet, rather than a path to a title and trust me, you'll enjoy fighting much more.

most of all, ANYONE who steps in the cage, through the ropes, or on the mat deserves respect and I think armchair warriors should remember how much heart it takes just to step up and fight, let alone all the hard work and training that goes into it.

[thediceman]

I remember Joe Rogan making that point and my immediate thought was I how different the two marketing machines are. The western market works on a much larger "macro environment" as it promotes heavily to sell it's product to a much larger audience over a large geographical area. The best way to do this is to create as much hype as they can for the main events. The eastern market tends to be far more insular, a micro market, and doesn't tend to market overseas. So the first key difference is largely their differing attitudes to money. The western fans often get caught up in the hype rather than being interested in the end product.

Everybody remembers Brock fighting Mir and BJ Penn beating Stevenson but what was the name of the to fighters who had a great fight in the event prior to these???

Did not Joe Rogan also talk about the differing attitudes of the fighter,s with the western ones more interested in their win/loss record where as eastern fighters tend to be more interested in putting on a good fight. I again think the key differences are cultural and financial. The western purses are so much larger if you fight in the main event and there are vast amounts that can be earned from advertising for being a winner/champion. Eastern society has a far greater cultural identity and history of honour. I also believe there fighters put less empathises on money in relation to their honour.

As I've said before, give me a good old tear up rather then a championship hugfest any day. Then again I'm not really a fight fan who appreciates/understands the fine art of technical abilty whereas I do love watching a crude brawl.   

[AdamM]

I don't really blame the fighters for striving for the titles. To step up and fight, they have to have the belief that they are, or can be the best.

As a fight fan, I view each fight as a stand alone event and, swing for the fences OR technical submission fight, will enjoy it or not on it's own merits.

It gets under my skin when fighters get hated for no real reason. Tim Sylvia, Matt Serra, Mike Bisping for example are despised by some sections of the MMA fans. The courage these guys show in stepping through the cage doors is phenomenal.