Liverpool FC

[matt674]

just flicking thru the channels on tv before tonights football and cant believe how many football teams have their own channel nowadays.....

Manchester United have MUTV

Chelsea have CTV

Liverpool have The History Channel

[Ironside]

just flicking thru the channels on tv before tonights football and cant believe how many football teams have their own channel nowadays.....

Manchester United have MUTV

Chelsea have CTV

Liverpool have The History Channel

and aberdeen have GODtv

[The Baron]

just flicking thru the channels on tv before tonights football and cant believe how many football teams have their own channel nowadays.....

Manchester United have MUTV

Chelsea have CTV

Liverpool have The History Channel

Charlton Fans are comedy central obv...

[jakally]

just flicking thru the channels on tv before tonights football and cant believe how many football teams have their own channel nowadays.....

Manchester United have MUTV

Chelsea have CTV

Liverpool have The History Channel

Charlton Fans are comedy central obv...

Baron - read the lengthy piece you wrote about Rafa's team building / purchases since he took over.
Good piece well written, and makes a compelling case for why he is a good manager.

However, ignores the fact that management isn't just about collecting the jigsaw pieces - it is much more than that.

Stories I have heard from sources reputedly close to the core, suggest that Rafa isn't respected that much by some key members of his team, and that he is not a good motivator.

Put that against managers who have a better track record (Ferguson, Mourinho etc..) and there is an obvious weakness in his repertoire.

As it happens I think he is a decent manager, but Liverpool are a big club, with a big following, who probably deserve a bit more than that.

[The Baron]

just flicking thru the channels on tv before tonights football and cant believe how many football teams have their own channel nowadays.....

Manchester United have MUTV

Chelsea have CTV

Liverpool have The History Channel

Charlton Fans are comedy central obv...

Baron - read the lengthy piece you wrote about Rafa's team building / purchases since he took over.
Good piece well written, and makes a compelling case for why he is a good manager.

However, ignores the fact that management isn't just about collecting the jigsaw pieces - it is much more than that.

Stories I have heard from sources reputedly close to the core, suggest that Rafa isn't respected that much by some key members of his team, and that he is not a good motivator.

Put that against managers who have a better track record (Ferguson, Mourinho etc..) and there is an obvious weakness in his repertoire.

As it happens I think he is a decent manager, but Liverpool are a big club, with a big following, who probably deserve a bit more than that.

Fair points Jak. The reason I dont respond on these points as a regular theme is that I am aiming to argue against what I preceive to be unfair criticism - not all criticism. This is mainly tabloid based/Sky Sports based criticism about rotation, zonal marking, his transfer spend etc - most of which cannot be backed up by fact or even convincing statistics. (Except the small sample that is this season I grant you)

My only arguments to your points above are (and I am just arguing for the sake of it - you are probably correct):


1) It is still only speculation that some of the major players at LFC don't like Rafa. (Gerrard and Carragher's books don't make me think it's them) Whilst I'm sure the likes of Cisse, Alonso, Babel etc do have/have had their issues, these are all players who were touted around or sold.

2) Rafa's transfer policy is to bring in players who are mentally tough (very similar to the psyche profiles Wenger does before he buys first team players) and the idea behind it is that players who are mentally toughest wont need an arm around them and will thrive on the regime - it's not what I'd agree with especially but he's not the first top foreign coach to have this mentality. Wenger also is not known as a top motivator - it's easy to compare to Ferguson and Mourinho as we know them but the likes of other top European coaches both past and present have had similar styles to Rafa. That top 10 coaches list from a page or two back is full of quiet men. It may be fair to say that style wont work in England - but probably not fair to say it doesn't work at all.

Bigger concerns for me are the cliques amongst the players which are worrying. Rafa used to employ a rotated roommate policy which got scrapped when certain senior players were kept up the night before a game by an annoying young substitute or whatever. But now there are quite obvious groups within the group. (Although I believe this is very similar at Chelsea)

I have absolutely zero doubt of a return to form and winning ways and making the top four this season though. In short, the team is too good not to and the other threatening teams just arent good enough (yet). And if Rafa has some personality flaws I'll take that and another 86 point finish most seasons. I guess my point is, I think there is a WHOLE LOT more of him doing things right than wrong.

How is the stars cash game these days?

[Murph1984]

[ ] shocked a Liverpool fan resorted to glorifying their past when faced with just how rubbish their team now is

Exactly the point I've been making in this thread about why Rafa shouldn't be sacked for not winning the league.

Where do you place the responsibilty for the lack of quality throughout the squad then if not on Rafa's shoulders?

I know Rick Parry ran the club assways for years so i'm guessing him?

[mondatoo]

People love talking about Liverpool and their so called demise because of their history and status, its a breading ground for trolling i love it.

Its strange coz people are like this about newcastle as well,except we've never won fk all 

they're really not. no-one talks about newcastle unless one of your fans brings up the subject. you get a totally false impression because in newcastle people talk about newcastle

So when ashley said he was renaming the ground it got a few posts + ptakes yet chelsea are doing the same thing,sure was a word said.Could go on but am fkd and ready for bed 

[kinboshi]

just flicking thru the channels on tv before tonights football and cant believe how many football teams have their own channel nowadays.....

Manchester United have MUTV

Chelsea have CTV

Liverpool have The History Channel

Charlton Fans are comedy central obv...

Baron - read the lengthy piece you wrote about Rafa's team building / purchases since he took over.
Good piece well written, and makes a compelling case for why he is a good manager.

However, ignores the fact that management isn't just about collecting the jigsaw pieces - it is much more than that.

Stories I have heard from sources reputedly close to the core, suggest that Rafa isn't respected that much by some key members of his team, and that he is not a good motivator.

Put that against managers who have a better track record (Ferguson, Mourinho etc..) and there is an obvious weakness in his repertoire.

As it happens I think he is a decent manager, but Liverpool are a big club, with a big following, who probably deserve a bit more than that.

Neil, which 'key members' don't respect Rafa?  Please don't say Babel, as he's neither key nor a player.

Gerrard or Carra?  Don't think it's them, and they've gone on the record giving their support to the manager.  Reina, Torres, Kuyt, Benny Noon, Johnson?  Nope, can't see it being one of them either.

So that leaves Mascherano, who was very tempted by Barca's interest, but stayed at Liverpool...maybe because of the manager?

So which other 'key players'?

[Josedinho]

Phil Thompson said Mascherano wanted the move to Barca but it was either him or Alonso that went and Alonso wanted the move more and Real were more active in their pursuit of him.
He also said that even before he left Liverpool in 2004 the budget was based on reaching the knockout stages of the Champions League

[david3103]

just flicking thru the channels on tv before tonights football and cant believe how many football teams have their own channel nowadays.....

Manchester United have MUTV

Chelsea have CTV

Liverpool have The History Channel

Charlton Fans are comedy central obv...

Baron - read the lengthy piece you wrote about Rafa's team building / purchases since he took over.
Good piece well written, and makes a compelling case for why he is a good manager.

However, ignores the fact that management isn't just about collecting the jigsaw pieces - it is much more than that.

Stories I have heard from sources reputedly close to the core, suggest that Rafa isn't respected that much by some key members of his team, and that he is not a good motivator.

Put that against managers who have a better track record (Ferguson, Mourinho etc..) and there is an obvious weakness in his repertoire.

As it happens I think he is a decent manager, but Liverpool are a big club, with a big following, who probably deserve a bit more than that.

Fair points Jak. The reason I dont respond on these points as a regular theme is that I am aiming to argue against what I preceive to be unfair criticism - not all criticism. This is mainly tabloid based/Sky Sports based criticism about rotation, zonal marking, his transfer spend etc - most of which cannot be backed up by fact or even convincing statistics. (Except the small sample that is this season I grant you)

My only arguments to your points above are (and I am just arguing for the sake of it - you are probably correct):


1) It is still only speculation that some of the major players at LFC don't like Rafa. (Gerrard and Carragher's books don't make me think it's them) Whilst I'm sure the likes of Cisse, Alonso, Babel etc do have/have had their issues, these are all players who were touted around or sold.

2) Rafa's transfer policy is to bring in players who are mentally tough (very similar to the psyche profiles Wenger does before he buys first team players) and the idea behind it is that players who are mentally toughest wont need an arm around them and will thrive on the regime - it's not what I'd agree with especially but he's not the first top foreign coach to have this mentality. Wenger also is not known as a top motivator - it's easy to compare to Ferguson and Mourinho as we know them but the likes of other top European coaches both past and present have had similar styles to Rafa. That top 10 coaches list from a page or two back is full of quiet men. It may be fair to say that style wont work in England - but probably not fair to say it doesn't work at all.

Bigger concerns for me are the cliques amongst the players which are worrying. Rafa used to employ a rotated roommate policy which got scrapped when certain senior players were kept up the night before a game by an annoying young substitute or whatever. But now there are quite obvious groups within the group. (Although I believe this is very similar at Chelsea)

I have absolutely zero doubt of a return to form and winning ways and making the top four this season though. In short, the team is too good not to and the other threatening teams just arent good enough (yet). And if Rafa has some personality flaws I'll take that and another 86 point finish most seasons. I guess my point is, I think there is a WHOLE LOT more of him doing things right than wrong.

How is the stars cash game these days?

I'm always interested to read the reasoned views of the more committed liverpool fans, and I think you're probably right about this, but...... isn't it a bit risky to use the 'too good to..' argument?
pace Nottingham Forest 1993. West Ham 2003, Newcastle 2009 et al

[Murph1984]

just flicking thru the channels on tv before tonights football and cant believe how many football teams have their own channel nowadays.....

Manchester United have MUTV

Chelsea have CTV

Liverpool have The History Channel

Charlton Fans are comedy central obv...

Baron - read the lengthy piece you wrote about Rafa's team building / purchases since he took over.
Good piece well written, and makes a compelling case for why he is a good manager.

However, ignores the fact that management isn't just about collecting the jigsaw pieces - it is much more than that.

Stories I have heard from sources reputedly close to the core, suggest that Rafa isn't respected that much by some key members of his team, and that he is not a good motivator.

Put that against managers who have a better track record (Ferguson, Mourinho etc..) and there is an obvious weakness in his repertoire.

As it happens I think he is a decent manager, but Liverpool are a big club, with a big following, who probably deserve a bit more than that.

Neil, which 'key members' don't respect Rafa?  Please don't say Babel, as he's neither key nor a player.

Gerrard or Carra?  Don't think it's them, and they've gone on the record giving their support to the manager.  Reina, Torres, Kuyt, Benny Noon, Johnson?  Nope, can't see it being one of them either.

So that leaves Mascherano, who was very tempted by Barca's interest, but stayed at Liverpool...maybe because of the manager?

So which other 'key players'?

I don't think anybody expects Mascherano to be at Liverpool come next season,champions league football or not.

[The Baron]

[ ] shocked a Liverpool fan resorted to glorifying their past when faced with just how rubbish their team now is

Exactly the point I've been making in this thread about why Rafa shouldn't be sacked for not winning the league.

Where do you place the responsibilty for the lack of quality throughout the squad then if not on Rafa's shoulders?

I know Rick Parry ran the club assways for years so i'm guessing him?

Even the most passionate rival fans can see there is not a lack of quality throughout the squad.

Sorry but I cant take this season's small sample over the progress made in 5 seasons. Call me daft!

[The Baron]

Phil Thompson said Mascherano wanted the move to Barca but it was either him or Alonso that went and Alonso wanted the move more and Real were more active in their pursuit of him.
He also said that even before he left Liverpool in 2004 the budget was based on reaching the knockout stages of the Champions League

Correct on both points but that doesn't apply to this season's CL failure really for two reasons:

1) The Europa Cup is worth more money now

2) Liverpool finished second in the EPL last season so their cut of the money from the CL this season is higher

Now if we don't make the top 4 it's a real financial disaster and another story altogether

[The Baron]

just flicking thru the channels on tv before tonights football and cant believe how many football teams have their own channel nowadays.....

Manchester United have MUTV

Chelsea have CTV

Liverpool have The History Channel

Charlton Fans are comedy central obv...

Baron - read the lengthy piece you wrote about Rafa's team building / purchases since he took over.
Good piece well written, and makes a compelling case for why he is a good manager.

However, ignores the fact that management isn't just about collecting the jigsaw pieces - it is much more than that.

Stories I have heard from sources reputedly close to the core, suggest that Rafa isn't respected that much by some key members of his team, and that he is not a good motivator.

Put that against managers who have a better track record (Ferguson, Mourinho etc..) and there is an obvious weakness in his repertoire.

As it happens I think he is a decent manager, but Liverpool are a big club, with a big following, who probably deserve a bit more than that.

Fair points Jak. The reason I dont respond on these points as a regular theme is that I am aiming to argue against what I preceive to be unfair criticism - not all criticism. This is mainly tabloid based/Sky Sports based criticism about rotation, zonal marking, his transfer spend etc - most of which cannot be backed up by fact or even convincing statistics. (Except the small sample that is this season I grant you)

My only arguments to your points above are (and I am just arguing for the sake of it - you are probably correct):


1) It is still only speculation that some of the major players at LFC don't like Rafa. (Gerrard and Carragher's books don't make me think it's them) Whilst I'm sure the likes of Cisse, Alonso, Babel etc do have/have had their issues, these are all players who were touted around or sold.

2) Rafa's transfer policy is to bring in players who are mentally tough (very similar to the psyche profiles Wenger does before he buys first team players) and the idea behind it is that players who are mentally toughest wont need an arm around them and will thrive on the regime - it's not what I'd agree with especially but he's not the first top foreign coach to have this mentality. Wenger also is not known as a top motivator - it's easy to compare to Ferguson and Mourinho as we know them but the likes of other top European coaches both past and present have had similar styles to Rafa. That top 10 coaches list from a page or two back is full of quiet men. It may be fair to say that style wont work in England - but probably not fair to say it doesn't work at all.

Bigger concerns for me are the cliques amongst the players which are worrying. Rafa used to employ a rotated roommate policy which got scrapped when certain senior players were kept up the night before a game by an annoying young substitute or whatever. But now there are quite obvious groups within the group. (Although I believe this is very similar at Chelsea)

I have absolutely zero doubt of a return to form and winning ways and making the top four this season though. In short, the team is too good not to and the other threatening teams just arent good enough (yet). And if Rafa has some personality flaws I'll take that and another 86 point finish most seasons. I guess my point is, I think there is a WHOLE LOT more of him doing things right than wrong.

How is the stars cash game these days?

I'm always interested to read the reasoned views of the more committed liverpool fans, and I think you're probably right about this, but...... isn't it a bit risky to use the 'too good to..' argument?
pace Nottingham Forest 1993. West Ham 2003, Newcastle 2009 et al

Yes I spose it is really. I just cant see enough in Spurs and City to worry me. If Spurs are there or there abouts when Modric gets fit then I'll worry - he is outstanding.

[The Baron]

just flicking thru the channels on tv before tonights football and cant believe how many football teams have their own channel nowadays.....

Manchester United have MUTV

Chelsea have CTV

Liverpool have The History Channel

Charlton Fans are comedy central obv...

Baron - read the lengthy piece you wrote about Rafa's team building / purchases since he took over.
Good piece well written, and makes a compelling case for why he is a good manager.

However, ignores the fact that management isn't just about collecting the jigsaw pieces - it is much more than that.

Stories I have heard from sources reputedly close to the core, suggest that Rafa isn't respected that much by some key members of his team, and that he is not a good motivator.

Put that against managers who have a better track record (Ferguson, Mourinho etc..) and there is an obvious weakness in his repertoire.

As it happens I think he is a decent manager, but Liverpool are a big club, with a big following, who probably deserve a bit more than that.

Neil, which 'key members' don't respect Rafa?  Please don't say Babel, as he's neither key nor a player.

Gerrard or Carra?  Don't think it's them, and they've gone on the record giving their support to the manager.  Reina, Torres, Kuyt, Benny Noon, Johnson?  Nope, can't see it being one of them either.

So that leaves Mascherano, who was very tempted by Barca's interest, but stayed at Liverpool...maybe because of the manager?

So which other 'key players'?

I don't think anybody expects Mascherano to be at Liverpool come next season,champions league football or not.

Whilst I'd agree with this we hold all of the cards when it comes to the transfer - just like Alonso last season. Masch for Yaya Toure or Masch for £35m? Yes please.

I just hope it's not drawn out like last summer and then we end up with another last minute replacement but I have faith in Barcelona doing business a bit more professionally than Real Madrid.