Liverpool FC

[The Baron]

I enjoy reading this thread too, but when people suggest Roy isn't up to the job or is tactically naive then I find that bollocks kinda irritating. The people proposed as replacements do not have a fraction of the knowledge and ability this guy's got. Also Hodgson is sensitive to the traditions of the club. Given time he will produce a fantastic team at Liverpool of that I have no doubt.

I'm not saying he's tactically naive, but he's a step backwards on Benitez. That I am sure of. His man to man pressing game is more in line with Houllier, two banks of 4 and a constant but undynamic "distant pressure" (I have no other way to describe it) which means we sit ridiculously deeply. Rafa was far better than that really bringing about the "machine" he made at Valenica with the pressing of spaces and areas rather than the man. It meant we punched well above our weight in possesion stats against big sides and it won us some very famous victories. He was also far better going forward. People forget the closest he got to a complete team was in 2008/2009 and we were top scorers as well as up there defensively. Unfortunately this is where the funding stopped.

I'm not denying Hodgson has ability and I really do like the man. But he looks a bit lost, the system is awful and doesn't suit the players, there is no width, no motivation and to be honest I don't remember more than 30 mins of football this season where I've even seen a glimpse of what could be. I'm not sure when he should go but I'm certain that he's not the man to spend NESV's money on "solid" players and I feel he wont win us the league no matter how long he stays. I'm not sure anyone can in the next 3 years but under Woy I fear for ever making the top 4.

[The Baron]

Roy is just not up to scratch, he is a nice guy and did OK with Fulham but it's quite clear he is just not good enough.
Obviously most of the players are woeful as well and need to go....reckon Liverpool need approx 9 good players to turn them in to a decent side again...and they're not going to get them...but I think the new owners have to try to convince Martin O'Neil to come on board ASAP as you can't give Hodgson £40mill to spend on new players...That would just be money down the drain.

I'm not a massive fan of "WOY" but to say he did OK at Fulham is a massive understatement,he did no less than a superb job there,can't really see how that's even debatable.I also don't understand your saying that Liverpool need 9 players to be a decent side again,which is crazy btw but anyway if that's the case then how's it Hodgson's fault there doing so bad,surely it's the lack of good players.The one thing Liverpool desperately need and have done for at least two seasons is a second striker,they rely as much on Torres as we did Shearer and you just can't expect him to be on it every single game and when he goes through a spell like he is at the minute it's hugely magnified by the fact nobody else can help fill the gap.

Mond this is very true and if we were 14th I wouldn't panic - we're very patient as fans unless there is cause. But some of the sides who have gone down, Forest, Leeds etc weren't far off being a good side - Fowler said on Sunday he thought the Leeds side that went down were better than our current team. He's not far wrong. I didn't think Spurs should have sacked Ramos so early but the Yid fans said the rot had to stop, and look what Redknapp has done. I am still eating humble pie on that one. I think under Fat Sam you'dnow be a top 6 EPL club but you can't tell me he didn't need to go when he was sacked?

[The Baron]

Saying that if we win our next two we're mid table so I take your point. I just cant see us beating Blackburn. Or any mid table side right now. We were lucky to beat West Brom - if we played them now we wouldn't.

[MANTIS01]

I enjoy reading this thread too, but when people suggest Roy isn't up to the job or is tactically naive then I find that bollocks kinda irritating. The people proposed as replacements do not have a fraction of the knowledge and ability this guy's got. Also Hodgson is sensitive to the traditions of the club. Given time he will produce a fantastic team at Liverpool of that I have no doubt.

I'm not saying he's tactically naive, but he's a step backwards on Benitez. That I am sure of. His man to man pressing game is more in line with Houllier, two banks of 4 and a constant but undynamic "distant pressure" (I have no other way to describe it) which means we sit ridiculously deeply. Rafa was far better than that really bringing about the "machine" he made at Valenica with the pressing of spaces and areas rather than the man. It meant we punched well above our weight in possesion stats against big sides and it won us some very famous victories. He was also far better going forward. People forget the closest he got to a complete team was in 2008/2009 and we were top scorers as well as up there defensively. Unfortunately this is where the funding stopped.

I'm not denying Hodgson has ability and I really do like the man. But he looks a bit lost, the system is awful and doesn't suit the players, there is no width, no motivation and to be honest I don't remember more than 30 mins of football this season where I've even seen a glimpse of what could be. I'm not sure when he should go but I'm certain that he's not the man to spend NESV's money on "solid" players and I feel he wont win us the league no matter how long he stays. I'm not sure anyone can in the next 3 years but under Woy I fear for ever making the top 4.

Why would Hodgson buy "solid" players if he had money to spend and aspirations to win the league? That is to suggest he lacks the ability to identify what's needed and act accordingly. That simply isn't so. Rijkaard struggled to make any impact at Rotterdam and actually got the club relegated and he's now struggling in Turkey. He has zero EPL experience and his CV isn't a patch on Hodgson's imo. Yeah the dude did well at Barca with a lot of money and support and ridiculously good players. But as I recall he started badly at Barcelona and fans were calling for his head before he was given the time and support needed to go on and build a winning side. Hmmmm.

[mondatoo]

Roy is just not up to scratch, he is a nice guy and did OK with Fulham but it's quite clear he is just not good enough.
Obviously most of the players are woeful as well and need to go....reckon Liverpool need approx 9 good players to turn them in to a decent side again...and they're not going to get them...but I think the new owners have to try to convince Martin O'Neil to come on board ASAP as you can't give Hodgson £40mill to spend on new players...That would just be money down the drain.

I'm not a massive fan of "WOY" but to say he did OK at Fulham is a massive understatement,he did no less than a superb job there,can't really see how that's even debatable.I also don't understand your saying that Liverpool need 9 players to be a decent side again,which is crazy btw but anyway if that's the case then how's it Hodgson's fault there doing so bad,surely it's the lack of good players.The one thing Liverpool desperately need and have done for at least two seasons is a second striker,they rely as much on Torres as we did Shearer and you just can't expect him to be on it every single game and when he goes through a spell like he is at the minute it's hugely magnified by the fact nobody else can help fill the gap.

Mond this is very true and if we were 14th I wouldn't panic - we're very patient as fans unless there is cause. But some of the sides who have gone down, Forest, Leeds etc weren't far off being a good side - Fowler said on Sunday he thought the Leeds side that went down were better than our current team. He's not far wrong. I didn't think Spurs should have sacked Ramos so early but the Yid fans said the rot had to stop, and look what Redknapp has done. I am still eating humble pie on that one. I think under Fat Sam you'dnow be a top 6 EPL club but you can't tell me he didn't need to go when he was sacked?

It was never going to work with Allardyce up here,for one reason.People always go on about Newcastle fans expecting to win trophies,as it happens we actually aren't that daft and know that's unlikely.We would also be very happy to play poor but win 1-0 regularly.However,when we aren't winning and when we are watching us play dire football against poor teams like was the case with Allardyce it won't work,we want to at least see some decent football.It seems that maybe Liverpool fans are also having this problem with Hodgson's style,your not just dropping points your playing really poor football.

I'm glad I'm not a chairman of a football club and although I'd love to do the job I'm glad I'm not a football manager,especially in the current times of basically a run of 6-7 bad games is enough to get you the sacked.I really can't see any chance of Liverpool being relegated but how many times has that been said before,I did actually think we could right at the start of the season we did.This however,would be bigger than any other big team going down and I really don't see it happening and hope it doesn't.

[The Baron]

Why would Hodgson buy "solid" players if he had money to spend and aspirations to win the league? That is to suggest he lacks the ability to identify what's needed and act accordingly. That simply isn't so. Rijkaard struggled to make any impact at Rotterdam and actually got the club relegated and he's now struggling in Turkey. He has zero EPL experience and his CV isn't a patch on Hodgson's imo. Yeah the dude did well at Barca with a lot of money and support and ridiculously good players. But as I recall he started badly at Barcelona and fans were calling for his head before he was given the time and support needed to go on and build a winning side. Hmmmm.

Well when has he not bought solid players? I cant think of a time he hasn't except the biggest no brainer ever in Joe Cole. The bigger issue is hat he does with the talent he does have. When has Gerrard, arguably the best AM in the EPL in recent years been let off his leash? Why is Torres playing like a target man? I cant even explain what has happened to Joe Cole. Why was Poulsen and Meireles bought when we so obviously needed a striker? We had Aquilani was doing fine but the creativity was sacrificed for Poulsen?

Hodgson's CV is misleading. There are many great managers at lower levels who would not cut it at Liverpool. After thinking about it I'd be willing to give him another 5 games but after that if we're not 9-10 points better off he has to go before the confidence is gone completely and we're serious relegation candidates.

Rijkaard isn't my answer. I'm not plugging for him but I'd take him over most of what is out there. We'd be playing good football and I'd be more confident of going after bigger targets. In his first season at Barca he brought in Davids and Ronaldinho and got to club to 2nd I think it was after a bad start? Not exactly a terrible season. I don't think anyone available right now is the answer but then I'm dreaming of managers who wouldn't touch us with a bargepole right now.

[The Baron]

Roy is just not up to scratch, he is a nice guy and did OK with Fulham but it's quite clear he is just not good enough.
Obviously most of the players are woeful as well and need to go....reckon Liverpool need approx 9 good players to turn them in to a decent side again...and they're not going to get them...but I think the new owners have to try to convince Martin O'Neil to come on board ASAP as you can't give Hodgson £40mill to spend on new players...That would just be money down the drain.

I'm not a massive fan of "WOY" but to say he did OK at Fulham is a massive understatement,he did no less than a superb job there,can't really see how that's even debatable.I also don't understand your saying that Liverpool need 9 players to be a decent side again,which is crazy btw but anyway if that's the case then how's it Hodgson's fault there doing so bad,surely it's the lack of good players.The one thing Liverpool desperately need and have done for at least two seasons is a second striker,they rely as much on Torres as we did Shearer and you just can't expect him to be on it every single game and when he goes through a spell like he is at the minute it's hugely magnified by the fact nobody else can help fill the gap.

Mond this is very true and if we were 14th I wouldn't panic - we're very patient as fans unless there is cause. But some of the sides who have gone down, Forest, Leeds etc weren't far off being a good side - Fowler said on Sunday he thought the Leeds side that went down were better than our current team. He's not far wrong. I didn't think Spurs should have sacked Ramos so early but the Yid fans said the rot had to stop, and look what Redknapp has done. I am still eating humble pie on that one. I think under Fat Sam you'dnow be a top 6 EPL club but you can't tell me he didn't need to go when he was sacked?

It was never going to work with Allardyce up here,for one reason.People always go on about Newcastle fans expecting to win trophies,as it happens we actually aren't that daft and know that's unlikely.We would also be very happy to play poor but win 1-0 regularly.However,when we aren't winning and when we are watching us play dire football against poor teams like was the case with Allardyce it won't work,we want to at least see some decent football.It seems that maybe Liverpool fans are also having this problem with Hodgson's style,your not just dropping points your playing really poor football.

I'm glad I'm not a chairman of a football club and although I'd love to do the job I'm glad I'm not a football manager,especially in the current times of basically a run of 6-7 bad games is enough to get you the sacked.I really can't see any chance of Liverpool being relegated but how many times has that been said before,I did actually think we could right at the start of the season we did.This however,would be bigger than any other big team going down and I really don't see it happening and hope it doesn't.

What you have described with Big Sam is exactly what is happening right now but with a better side playing possibly worse football.

I dont see us being relegated either but finishing mid table with this team is still not good enough.

As you know I'm a fan of Benitez but when he finished 7th he had to go. If Roy has us less than the top half and in reach of a Europa spot by mid-November then he has to go imo.

[The Baron]

If I had to pick a realistic target I'd pick a manager with good potential. Blanc, Deschamps or maybe a Pelligrini. (Chileans are good at getting out of holes?)

[The Baron]

danroan

Rijkaard agent: "There has been no approach from Liverpool - at this moment Frank is still manager of Galataseray"

[boldie]

If I had to pick a realistic target I'd pick a manager with good potential. Blanc, Deschamps or maybe a Pelligrini. (Chileans are good at getting out of holes?)

Shame Hiddink has never walked out of a contract oor he'd be the man for you. Tactically astute, a big name that will attract big players and a great man manager.

[TheChipPrince]

If I had to pick a realistic target I'd pick a manager with good potential. Blanc, Deschamps or maybe a Pelligrini. (Chileans are good at getting out of holes?)

Shame Hiddink has never walked out of a contract oor he'd be the man for you. Tactically astute, a big name that will attract big players and a great man manager.

***Boldie in Hiddink plug shocker***

[boldie]

If I had to pick a realistic target I'd pick a manager with good potential. Blanc, Deschamps or maybe a Pelligrini. (Chileans are good at getting out of holes?)

Shame Hiddink has never walked out of a contract oor he'd be the man for you. Tactically astute, a big name that will attract big players and a great man manager.

***Boldie in Hiddink plug shocker***

I have to admit I have a bit of a man crush on Hiddink when it comes to footie management.

[MANTIS01]

Why would Hodgson buy "solid" players if he had money to spend and aspirations to win the league? That is to suggest he lacks the ability to identify what's needed and act accordingly. That simply isn't so. Rijkaard struggled to make any impact at Rotterdam and actually got the club relegated and he's now struggling in Turkey. He has zero EPL experience and his CV isn't a patch on Hodgson's imo. Yeah the dude did well at Barca with a lot of money and support and ridiculously good players. But as I recall he started badly at Barcelona and fans were calling for his head before he was given the time and support needed to go on and build a winning side. Hmmmm.

Well when has he not bought solid players? I cant think of a time he hasn't except the biggest no brainer ever in Joe Cole. The bigger issue is hat he does with the talent he does have. When has Gerrard, arguably the best AM in the EPL in recent years been let off his leash? Why is Torres playing like a target man? I cant even explain what has happened to Joe Cole. Why was Poulsen and Meireles bought when we so obviously needed a striker? We had Aquilani was doing fine but the creativity was sacrificed for Poulsen?

Hodgson's CV is misleading. There are many great managers at lower levels who would not cut it at Liverpool. After thinking about it I'd be willing to give him another 5 games but after that if we're not 9-10 points better off he has to go before the confidence is gone completely and we're serious relegation candidates.

Rijkaard isn't my answer. I'm not plugging for him but I'd take him over most of what is out there. We'd be playing good football and I'd be more confident of going after bigger targets. In his first season at Barca he brought in Davids and Ronaldinho and got to club to 2nd I think it was after a bad start? Not exactly a terrible season. I don't think anyone available right now is the answer but then I'm dreaming of managers who wouldn't touch us with a bargepole right now.

From my outside perspective it looked like Benitez left because he wasn't getting the funding or support he needed. He made a big fuss about that in the media and was responsible for a lot of the current negativity surrounding the team. So I think it's reasonable to speculate Hodgson didn't get the funding or support he would ideally want either. Hodgson wanted Mascherano to stay and Aquilani wanted to go! So he was forced to find cheaper replacements under the then ownership who demanded net profit on any team changes. Bringing in Poulsen and Miereles are players who fit the criteria and fit the brief. Experienced international holding midfielders who were cheaper than Masch/Aquilani and available. Same with Konchesky, a round peg to fit a round hole...not ideal...but cheap.

As far as I'm aware Liverpool were chasing many strikers as the window closed including Carlton Cole, Peter Crouch, Ola Toivonen, Lisandro Lopez, Mario Gomez etc so it's clear Hodgson identified a striker as a priority. But guess what? He didn't get the funding or support he needed to pull any of those deals off. The main difference is Hodgson wasn't/isn't vocal in his criticism of the club's ownership.

Roy has taken over a side on the slide with many players lacking confidence, devoid of passion, and out of form, so it's no surprise during games they drop deep or lump it up to Torres. Remember Capello screaming PRESS DE BOL PRESS DE BOL at a disenchanted England side as they dropped deep in the world cup. Was Hodsgon ever going to be able to turn that confidence on like a tap? Maybe Liverpool should have got Kevin Keegan or Terry Venables if they wanted someone who could do a quick fix. I think Hodgson has a bigger rebuilding job than another 5 or 6 games will allow and the club should support him in the January window...if he's still around that is.

[The Baron]

Benitez didn't want to go. Purslow recent said it was mutual which Rafa denied. Why wouldn't he have walked right away at the end of the season and why was he paid off 6 million if he wanted to go?

Hodgson has spent £23m so far.... not exactly unfunded even if all of it came from Mascherano.

Aquilani wanted to stay but knew he wasn't in Hodgson's plans very early on. Juve came in and it was a no brainer. That's a no fee loan move on a £17m player who showed good potential at the back end of last season replaced by the worst DM I can remember at Liverpool.

The owners didn't demand any profit from the sales as he made none as he didn't even sell Aquilani! Plus he still had £10m to chase Carlton feckin Cole on deadline day!

Sorry but Konchesky was not cheap. He was £4m plus two promising youngsters at 30. And is he better than Insua? Not by much and he's 8 years old with zero resale value. Insua was bought for a few hundred grand and is now worth 4-5 mil.

All in all that's pretty bad business on Hodgson's part. If there had been no Joe Cole signing it would be the worst summer of transfer activity since Diouf, Diao and Cheyrou.

IMO you insist on selling Aquilani and buy two £15m+ midfielders of you keep him and play him over Poulsen and sepnd the Masch money between a semi decent CM and a striker. What you don't do is lose two good midfielders, only get the money for one of them and split that into two meh signings and one that might work out.

Konchesky>Insua
Aquilani>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Poulsen
Mascherano>>>>>>>Meireles

As mentioned above he did get the funding and if he didn't have enough he should have SOLD Aquilani. Or not wasted £4m on Konchesky. Or not moved out Aquilani at all.

I get why he's taken the route one tactical game as he wants to not get beat. But you are playing players in roles they aren't familiar with. Torres a target man. Maxi inside. Joe Cole in 3 different positions so far. No width. Carragher at RB. Meireles at RM. Gerrard very deep.

I dont care what experience he has you just cannot defend continual bad decisions and less so at a club this size.

From my outside perspective it looked like Benitez left because he wasn't getting the funding or support he needed. He made a big fuss about that in the media and was responsible for a lot of the current negativity surrounding the team. So I think it's reasonable to speculate Hodgson didn't get the funding or support he would ideally want either. Hodgson wanted Mascherano to stay and Aquilani wanted to go! So he was forced to find cheaper replacements under the then ownership who demanded net profit on any team changes. Bringing in Poulsen and Miereles are players who fit the criteria and fit the brief. Experienced international holding midfielders who were cheaper than Masch/Aquilani and available. Same with Konchesky, a round peg to fit a round hole...not ideal...but cheap.

As far as I'm aware Liverpool were chasing many strikers as the window closed including Carlton Cole, Peter Crouch, Ola Toivonen, Lisandro Lopez, Mario Gomez etc so it's clear Hodgson identified a striker as a priority. But guess what? He didn't get the funding or support he needed to pull any of those deals off. The main difference is Hodgson wasn't/isn't vocal in his criticism of the club's ownership.

Roy has taken over a side on the slide with many players lacking confidence, devoid of passion, and out of form, so it's no surprise during games they drop deep or lump it up to Torres. Remember Capello screaming PRESS DE BOL PRESS DE BOL at a disenchanted England side as they dropped deep in the world cup. Was Hodsgon ever going to be able to turn that confidence on like a tap? Maybe Liverpool should have got Kevin Keegan or Terry Venables if they wanted someone who could do a quick fix. I think Hodgson has a bigger rebuilding job than another 5 or 6 games will allow and the club should support him in the January window...if he's still around that is.

[boldie]

If I had to pick a realistic target I'd pick a manager with good potential. Blanc, Deschamps or maybe a Pelligrini. (Chileans are good at getting out of holes?)

Shame Hiddink has never walked out of a contract oor he'd be the man for you. Tactically astute, a big name that will attract big players and a great man manager.

You've been talking to Brent again haven't you....
***Boldie in Hiddink plug shocker***

I have to admit I have a bit of a man crush on Hiddink when it comes to footie management.

And what were u saying about Brent...

But he's gay for Rhydian whereas I have a little man-crush on a Footie manager...big difference, surely?