Liverpool FC

[david3103]

Mind games or just plain honest truth?

Manchester United boss Sir Alex Ferguson says he expects Liverpool to challenge for honours next season.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/14193275.stm

[boldie]

. He needs a guy to ping it in early and accurately and that guy is Downing..

Great post.  Downings ability to put in that early cross that defenders find so difficult to deal with is pretty much unparrelled in the premier league and having Carroll on the end of it has the potential to be a very good combination.

OK, great, whoopteedoo..you have someone who can ping a ball on to Carroll's head. (Whether you should pay £20mill for that and, effectively turn Carroll into a £55mill player is a different matter IMO)

Now, what if Carrol doesn't play? Does that means Downing gets benched immediately as well?

[boldie]

Mind games or just plain honest truth?

Manchester United boss Sir Alex Ferguson says he expects Liverpool to challenge for honours next season.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/14193275.stm

lol, he's not actually saying anything other than "In the long run".

[kinboshi]

Who is or isn't a top class individual footballer isn't all that important is it? Dalglish is building a team so he's looking at combinations across the pitch. What matters is whether Downing works in tandem with Carroll not whether he's rated as a world class stand alone player. It's fair to say Kenny is pinning a lot of hopes on Andy Carroll and if Andy Carroll is a big success there's a good chance Kenny & Liverpool will be a big success. If Carroll flops at £35m it's bad news for all concerned. Thus Kenny must look at the best player to supply what Carroll needs.

Downing is a proven prem league player and has some of the best delivery stats in the league. I would say Nani is a more skillful individual player than Downing but if you put him in the Liverpool side he wouldn't work. All those step overs and drag backs would leave caveman Carroll all confused and befuddled. He needs a guy to ping it in early and accurately and that guy is Downing. Liverpool and Kenny need Carroll to be successful and Carroll needs someone like Downing to be successful. All this talk of who's the best individual makes this thread sound like a Man City board meeting.

Which basically means Downing is a 'top class' player?  Fit for purpose, so to speak.

[kinboshi]

. He needs a guy to ping it in early and accurately and that guy is Downing..

Great post.  Downings ability to put in that early cross that defenders find so difficult to deal with is pretty much unparrelled in the premier league and having Carroll on the end of it has the potential to be a very good combination.

OK, great, whoopteedoo..you have someone who can ping a ball on to Carroll's head. (Whether you should pay £20mill for that and, effectively turn Carroll into a £55mill player is a different matter IMO)

Now, what if Carrol doesn't play? Does that means Downing gets benched immediately as well?

I'm still undecided about Downing, and wasn't crying out for him to be signed before he joined.  But you surely can't overlook a player who created more goal-scoring opportunities for other players than any other last season (that's not counting Skrtel's assists for the opposition)? 

There's lots of talk on Liverpool forums about getting another ball-playing centre-back.  That's all well and good, but many seem to be over-looking the primary role of a centre-back, which is to defend.  Downing's primary role as a winger is to create chances for his team-mates, and this seems to be a role he's pretty good at n'est pas?  It seems that because Adam isn't as good as others with his movement off the ball, and Downing doesn't score enough goals, and Carragher isn't the fastest, and Kuyt doesn't do fancy step-overs, and Gerrard tries to do too much himself, and Carroll was £34.5M too expensive, and Suarez this and Johnson that, etc., Liverpool are eleven players short of a 'top class' first XI.

As a Liverpool fan, I'm really looking forward to the new season and getting behind Kenny and the players.

[redarmi]

. He needs a guy to ping it in early and accurately and that guy is Downing..

Great post.  Downings ability to put in that early cross that defenders find so difficult to deal with is pretty much unparrelled in the premier league and having Carroll on the end of it has the potential to be a very good combination.

OK, great, whoopteedoo..you have someone who can ping a ball on to Carroll's head. (Whether you should pay £20mill for that and, effectively turn Carroll into a £55mill player is a different matter IMO)

Now, what if Carrol doesn't play? Does that means Downing gets benched immediately as well?

So what exactly do you want a winger to do??

[boldie]

. He needs a guy to ping it in early and accurately and that guy is Downing..

Great post.  Downings ability to put in that early cross that defenders find so difficult to deal with is pretty much unparrelled in the premier league and having Carroll on the end of it has the potential to be a very good combination.

OK, great, whoopteedoo..you have someone who can ping a ball on to Carroll's head. (Whether you should pay £20mill for that and, effectively turn Carroll into a £55mill player is a different matter IMO)

Now, what if Carrol doesn't play? Does that means Downing gets benched immediately as well?

So what exactly do you want a winger to do??

Feel like we can go round and round on this one TBH. I don't rate him as highly as others do. 24% cross completion rate isn't very high. 69% passcompletion rate isn't very high either TBH.

Downing PL 2010/11 Pass completion - 69% Goals Assists - 7 Goals - 7
Theo Walcott EPL 2010/11 Pass Completion - 72% Assists - 7 Goals - 9 TW played 50% less minutes than Downing last season

He's just not a 20mill£ player IMO.

TBF, Downing tries to put an AWFUL lot of crosses in...a truly stupendous amount. But he wouldn't get the chance to put that many in at Liverpool (unless Kenny wants very predictable footie) so I'd expect that nr to drop dramatically.

[MANTIS01]

I would expect him to be able to get even more crosses in at Liverpool. The possession football Liverpool play at Anfield means he will see a lot more of the ball. Additionally the high intensity passing game means that when Liverpool stretch their oppos around the park he will see a lot more of the ball in space as well. I agree he's not a £20m player for Villa, but Villa don't have Carroll and thus he becomes a more valuable commodity to Liverpool hence the price. Villa aren't stupid and they held out knowing the value of a multiple crosser to Liverpool..

[kinboshi]

I would expect him to be able to get even more crosses in at Liverpool. The possession football Liverpool play at Anfield means he will see a lot more of the ball. Additionally the high intensity passing game means that when Liverpool stretch their oppos around the park he will see a lot more of the ball in space as well. I agree he's not a £20m player for Villa, but Villa don't have Carroll and thus he becomes a more valuable commodity to Liverpool hence the price. Villa aren't stupid and they held out knowing the value of a multiple crosser to Liverpool..

Bugger, I'm in agreement with Mantis again - and on this thread!

[77dave]

We all agree that we need to trim the squad of some deadwood, Gulacsi has gone out on loan to Hull today, Panchaco missed out on a move to Coventry but will prob still move on for the season. Bruna and Mavinga have also left.

Im starting to think that Aqualani and Cole will both be given another shot at least until the Jan window. Meireless talk has gone quiet. Poulsen has claimed he is going nowhere. Talk of Insua to Roma.

So whoelse to go and to where.

I still think we need a LB and CB, do we still have money in the coffers without player sales?

[boldie]

I still think we need a LB and CB, do we still have money in the coffers without player sales?

That's a good question. I've not really heard anyone talk any numbers. Obv LFC have spent quite a few pennies already and a Centreback is expensive and a LB is ridic hard to find (a good one is anyways). I reckon you're looking at another 40-50mill to fill those two positions with proper players.

does anyone know what the remaining budget is?

[kinboshi]

I really think Robinson should get a run in the side.  He's lightning fast, an amazing tackler and at 17 is only going to get better. Of course, he's only had 3 games for the first team so he would be a risk.  The same chance for Flanagan too on the left.  That means we also have Johnson for either full-back position and of course the meringue-based Aurelio.  Insua will probably leave, and although he might come good I just don't think he's what we need long-term (could be very wrong though, wouldn't be the first time!). 

At centre-back we have Carragher for another season (and yes, he's still easily good enough), Agger if fit, Kelly (who's also cover for right-back), Wilson, Kyrgiakos, and of course - the mercurial Skrtel.  For me, Kyrgiakos and Skrtel are no more than cover. Wilson hasn't shown his potential yet (but to be fair, hasn't had a chance), and Carragher/Agger/Kelly are good enough for me as starting centre-backs.

So, although I agree we can strengthen in defence, I don't think we need half-decent players - if we're buying anyone, they need to be top-notch and improve the first XI rather than be squad signings.

[kinboshi]

does anyone know what the remaining budget is?

More than G&H would have been spending.  Henry has said that if Comolli and Dalglish need funds to sign more players, it's available.  So, I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[kinboshi]

Anyone seen Bruna play?

Seen him in reserve matches, and he's skillful and not bad at free-kicks.  No idea how he'd fair at first team level, and great things were expected from him just like with Pacheco.

[TightEnd]

So what's the plan with Adam then?

famously you can't play him in a midfield 2 (4-4-2) as he gets overrun

Blackpool played two workhorses next to him to give him the freedom to create

You can get Henderson and Lucas to do that, but Gerrard?

4-3-3, 1 up and 4-5-1?