Vegas & The Aftermath - Diary

[tikay]

b) Her bladder would have functioned properly, enabling her to pass water. The Ecstasy contributed to her inability to pass the water she drunk - to overcome the Ectasy side effects.

wasn't it water retention in the brain that killed her rather than anything to do with the bladder?

not that that changes your point, it was the drug in combination with duff government advice that killed her, neither in isolation was likely to do it. a most unfortunate case really, take a drug that on it's own is generally considered safe, combine it with an amount of water that on it's own won't kill and you have a deadly combination.

From Wiki.......

Leah had been at home with friends and had not been dancing, yet consumed about 7 litres in less than 90 minutes, resulting in water intoxication and hyponatremia (low sodium levels; in this case due to the dilution of blood), which in turn led to serious swelling of the brain (cerebral oedema), irreparably damaging it. However, SIADH caused by the ecstasy left Betts unable to urinate which would have allowed expulsion of the excess water and prevented hyponatremia. At the inquest it was stated "If Leah had taken the drug alone she might well have survived. If she had drunk the amount of water alone she would have survived

Either way, it was the combination that killed her.

[tikay]

Some days, I can search the newspaper & see nothing that catches my imagination. Today, they are full of great stuff.

Byron already flagged up the story of the poor lady who died from drinking too much water - 4 litres in 2 hours, I believe, & it caused her brain to swell up & killed her within hours.

She was on the increasingly popular "LighterLife" Diet Plan, which many blondes have used successfully. No blame was, or should, be attached to the makers of "LighterLife", she just overdosed on water.

But, looking at the story sideways, two thoughts struck me.

1) Who'd have thought you could die from drinking too much water? (Don't tell the Zimbabweans that). Water is such an amazing thing - it deserves a Post all of it's own. We can't live without it, but it can so easily kill us, in so many ways.

There are quite a few people who do marathons who die from hyponatremia.  Usually the slower runners, who don't actually need to rehydrate as much and they effectively dilute the sodium in their body (which causes the brain swelling amongst other symptoms).  Much better to drink the sports drinks with the electrolytes, or have a bag of crisps with your water if you're going to drink that much.

Not entirely sure I buy that, but I won't argue.

Read what hyponatremia is and why the body suffers.  The sports drinks contain sodium (along with other stuff), and so you avoid the effects of hyponatremia.  I actually make my own sports drinks, as it's far cheaper than buying the ones in the shops.  

I'm not going into that debate either. But if you think it works, it probably does. The mind is much more clever than we realise.

Eh?  It matters not what you think or I think, it's scientific fact.  

If you want to read more:

http://health.howstuffworks.com/question565.htm

http://www.merck.com/pubs/mmanual_ha/sec3/ch18/ch18d.html

Sorry Kin, I am not a Member of the "If a Scientist says it, it must be right" Club. They are wrong as often as they are right, as you well know. Essentially, they tell us what they want us to hear. Medical Laboratories employ Scientists for just that very purpose. You may be right, the Scientists might be, too, but as I said, I'm not buying.

I stick to common-sense, & if it fails me, it fails me. You might as well try & get this to understand - this is my mind in it's "I'm not listening" mode.

[Bongo]

b) Her bladder would have functioned properly, enabling her to pass water. The Ecstasy contributed to her inability to pass the water she drunk - to overcome the Ectasy side effects.

wasn't it water retention in the brain that killed her rather than anything to do with the bladder?

not that that changes your point, it was the drug in combination with duff government advice that killed her, neither in isolation was likely to do it. a most unfortunate case really, take a drug that on it's own is generally considered safe, combine it with an amount of water that on it's own won't kill and you have a deadly combination.

After the event her dad toured schools and gave talks on the dangers of drugs, he visited my school. I don't remember drinking too much water being mentioned during the talk at all, indeed I only found out that was the cause of her death years later when I was doing some research.

How many children received that talk in total? How many of them subsequently took ecstasy? How many of those died from drinking too much water?

I was going to see if I could find some info on that but the first page I found on google (a bbc news article) had the following quote:

"Much recent coverage of ecstasy has obscured the real information young people need in order to minimise the risks and decrease the death toll."

[Bongo]

b) Her bladder would have functioned properly, enabling her to pass water. The Ecstasy contributed to her inability to pass the water she drunk - to overcome the Ectasy side effects.

wasn't it water retention in the brain that killed her rather than anything to do with the bladder?

not that that changes your point, it was the drug in combination with duff government advice that killed her, neither in isolation was likely to do it. a most unfortunate case really, take a drug that on it's own is generally considered safe, combine it with an amount of water that on it's own won't kill and you have a deadly combination.

From Wiki.......

Leah had been at home with friends and had not been dancing, yet consumed about 7 litres in less than 90 minutes, resulting in water intoxication and hyponatremia (low sodium levels; in this case due to the dilution of blood), which in turn led to serious swelling of the brain (cerebral oedema), irreparably damaging it. However, SIADH caused by the ecstasy left Betts unable to urinate which would have allowed expulsion of the excess water and prevented hyponatremia. At the inquest it was stated "If Leah had taken the drug alone she might well have survived. If she had drunk the amount of water alone she would have survived

Either way, it was the combination that killed her.

How much water had the diet-plan woman drunk then? Did she also have bladder issues?

[gatso]

ah, ok, 'twas the brain and the bladder

interesting line from the inquest reflecting the thoughts back then 'if Leah had taken the drug alone she might well have survived. If she had drunk the amount of water alone she would have survived'

I believe that if the same inquest was held today it would conclude that she would have survived if she had taken the drug alone rather than just saying that she might have

[tikay]

Some days, I can search the newspaper & see nothing that catches my imagination. Today, they are full of great stuff.

Byron already flagged up the story of the poor lady who died from drinking too much water - 4 litres in 2 hours, I believe, & it caused her brain to swell up & killed her within hours.

She was on the increasingly popular "LighterLife" Diet Plan, which many blondes have used successfully. No blame was, or should, be attached to the makers of "LighterLife", she just overdosed on water.

But, looking at the story sideways, two thoughts struck me.

1) Who'd have thought you could die from drinking too much water? (Don't tell the Zimbabweans that). Water is such an amazing thing - it deserves a Post all of it's own. We can't live without it, but it can so easily kill us, in so many ways.

There are quite a few people who do marathons who die from hyponatremia.  Usually the slower runners, who don't actually need to rehydrate as much and they effectively dilute the sodium in their body (which causes the brain swelling amongst other symptoms).  Much better to drink the sports drinks with the electrolytes, or have a bag of crisps with your water if you're going to drink that much.

Not entirely sure I buy that, but I won't argue.

Read what hyponatremia is and why the body suffers.  The sports drinks contain sodium (along with other stuff), and so you avoid the effects of hyponatremia.  I actually make my own sports drinks, as it's far cheaper than buying the ones in the shops.  

I'm not going into that debate either. But if you think it works, it probably does. The mind is much more clever than we realise.

.....water is secondary and passive to salt concentration and maintenance. Water just follows salt wherever it goes in your body (generally speaking) and everything is maintained from a relative salt concentration... physiologically speaking... I can drink 4L of water, but if I am consuming 5g of salt a day, my body will not think this is enough and adjust accordingly... likewise I can drink 4L of water a day and only consume 500mg of salt and my body will excrete excess water. If my salt stays constant and my water fluctuation changes, my body will retain more water when I need it, and excrete more when I don't...just to keep the relative salt concentration right... so it's really not about water, it's about salt...body is a lot smarter than we give it credit for....

AZK

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/85/health-fitness/how-much-water-would-one-have-drink-outweight-diuretic-effect-caffeine-192673/

Now that I do buy. I don't know why, there's no logic, but when I see new information, ANY new info, anywhere, told by anyone, it goes into a department of my head which asks "now, does that add up"? And it seems to me, it does.

And it's well interesting, too. Who'd have thunk, salt is so important?

Of course, the Government has an obsession with salt, & wants us all to stop consuming it. But in bygone days, lack of salt was said to be a killer.

As was stated earlier, all things in moderation is probably OK. Even those electric drinks Kin sets such great store by.

[DesD]

That Thomson flight Bird Strike was a minor affair. THIS is a bird strike. Bet it was not a sparrow wot did this.

!

[tikay]

ah, ok, 'twas the brain and the bladder

interesting line from the inquest reflecting the thoughts back then 'if Leah had taken the drug alone she might well have survived. If she had drunk the amount of water alone she would have survived'

I believe that if the same inquest was held today it would conclude that she would have survived if she had taken the drug alone rather than just saying that she might have

Correct.

[Karabiner]

I'm not getting into a drugs debate, my views are set in stone.

Very wise as you would have absolutely no chance of winning one

[tikay]

b) Her bladder would have functioned properly, enabling her to pass water. The Ecstasy contributed to her inability to pass the water she drunk - to overcome the Ectasy side effects.

wasn't it water retention in the brain that killed her rather than anything to do with the bladder?

not that that changes your point, it was the drug in combination with duff government advice that killed her, neither in isolation was likely to do it. a most unfortunate case really, take a drug that on it's own is generally considered safe, combine it with an amount of water that on it's own won't kill and you have a deadly combination.

From Wiki.......

Leah had been at home with friends and had not been dancing, yet consumed about 7 litres in less than 90 minutes, resulting in water intoxication and hyponatremia (low sodium levels; in this case due to the dilution of blood), which in turn led to serious swelling of the brain (cerebral oedema), irreparably damaging it. However, SIADH caused by the ecstasy left Betts unable to urinate which would have allowed expulsion of the excess water and prevented hyponatremia. At the inquest it was stated "If Leah had taken the drug alone she might well have survived. If she had drunk the amount of water alone she would have survived

Either way, it was the combination that killed her.

How much water had the diet-plan woman drunk then? Did she also have bladder issues?

She drunk too much, too quick, end of. She had no bladder issues, & the tenous point you are making does not add up.

Every human being is different, & we all have varying tolerance levels.

[gatso]

But in bygone days, lack of salt was said to be a killer.

that's because it was. it's one of those things that's been pretty much eradicated now though as anyone suffering from a severe lack of salt can have it replaced with an iv drip, something which even countries with the lowest level of healthcare are capable of

back when you were a kid in the days before iv drips you couldn't replace the salt quick enough and people would die

[tikay]

I'm not getting into a drugs debate, my views are set in stone.

Very wise as you would have absolutely no chance of winning one

You are so right!

I realised that many moons ago Ralph. It's why I don't (try not to) debate it. My mind is immovably fixed on the subject.

[tikay]

But in bygone days, lack of salt was said to be a killer.

that's because it was. it's one of those things that's been pretty much eradicated now though as anyone suffering from a severe lack of salt can have it replaced with an iv drip, something which even countries with the lowest level of healthcare are capable of

back when you were a kid in the days before iv drips you couldn't replace the salt quick enough and people would die

They still do, in Zimbabwe, thanks to Mugabe.

[Bongo]

Well it just seemed that if you can drink 7 litres in 90 minutes and survive if your bladder is working properly then something odd must have happened for someone to die after drinking 4 litres in 2 hours.

[tikay]

b) Her bladder would have functioned properly, enabling her to pass water. The Ecstasy contributed to her inability to pass the water she drunk - to overcome the Ectasy side effects.

wasn't it water retention in the brain that killed her rather than anything to do with the bladder?

not that that changes your point, it was the drug in combination with duff government advice that killed her, neither in isolation was likely to do it. a most unfortunate case really, take a drug that on it's own is generally considered safe, combine it with an amount of water that on it's own won't kill and you have a deadly combination.

After the event her dad toured schools and gave talks on the dangers of drugs, he visited my school. I don't remember drinking too much water being mentioned during the talk at all, indeed I only found out that was the cause of her death years later when I was doing some research.

How many children received that talk in total? How many of them subsequently took ecstasy? How many of those died from drinking too much water?

I was going to see if I could find some info on that but the first page I found on google (a bbc news article) had the following quote:

"Much recent coverage of ecstasy has obscured the real information young people need in order to minimise the risks and decrease the death toll."

Now that's just daft, if I may make so bold.

But if you really want the answer, it's probably "nil". If I may be controversial for a moment, I have a hunch that water is very probably a good deal safer than Ecstasy.