Vegas & The Aftermath - Diary

[theprawnidentity]

Also, and most importantly in my view, it is not up to us to decide what is hurtful or offensive to someone else.

Oddly I both agree and disagree with this.  If I said something that caused offence to someone and they politely pointed out that they didn't appreciate what I had said I would be very quick to apologise and not do it again.  I think it's just the medias constant BS on the matter.  If anyone says / does / vaguely imply anything they consider offensive then everyone jumps on the bandwagon.  But if this kind of thing happened to me (and fortunately I'm too fat and pointless for this to ever be a problem), then I would be hurt and offended by the media treating me this way when clearly I'm not racist, I just got caught saying something they didn't like.  So if I find the way the media treat people hurtful and offensive, should they stop doing that too?

It seems like most people find these things offensive because the media tells them it's offensive.  As Redsgirl points out, you cannot say its ok for someone to say x, y, z and not for someone else, offence is completely subjective.  I'm offended by banality, but unfortunately I don't have the media to stick up for me.  Maybe I'm being discriminated against....

[AlunB]

Also, and most importantly in my view, it is not up to us to decide what is hurtful or offensive to someone else.

Oddly I both agree and disagree with this.  If I said something that caused offence to someone and they politely pointed out that they didn't appreciate what I had said I would be very quick to apologise and not do it again.  I think it's just the medias constant BS on the matter.  If anyone says / does / vaguely imply anything they consider offensive then everyone jumps on the bandwagon.  But if this kind of thing happened to me (and fortunately I'm too fat and pointless for this to ever be a problem), then I would be hurt and offended by the media treating me this way when clearly I'm not racist, I just got caught saying something they didn't like.  So if I find the way the media treat people hurtful and offensive, should they stop doing that too?

It seems like most people find these things offensive because the media tells them it's offensive.  As Redsgirl points out, you cannot say its ok for someone to say x, y, z and not for someone else, offence is completely subjective.  I'm offended by banality, but unfortunately I don't have the media to stick up for me.  Maybe I'm being discriminated against....

Likewise I agree and disagree with you I think under the conditions you defined it I agree with you. I think where I disagree is there are some words that have such enormous baggage that they are just on the banned list regardless of any self-righteous media nonsense.

The n word in this country was used only as a term of abuse and/or a way of demeaning or belittling someone when I was growing up. Even when said in a 'nice' way it was still a way of putting someone in a box and defining them as different.  

It comes wrapped up in decades of violence, racism, anger, hatred and intolerance.  It's a word that still carries enormous power to hurt. And even if you mean no harm by using it then it's extremely unlikely no offence will be taken.

p.s Same is true for the p word, which you still hear a LOT of people use casually in conversation. Always makes me wince.

[AlunB]

Also, and most importantly in my view, it is not up to us to decide what is hurtful or offensive to someone else.

Oddly I both agree and disagree with this.  If I said something that caused offence to someone and they politely pointed out that they didn't appreciate what I had said I would be very quick to apologise and not do it again.  I think it's just the medias constant BS on the matter.  If anyone says / does / vaguely imply anything they consider offensive then everyone jumps on the bandwagon.  But if this kind of thing happened to me (and fortunately I'm too fat and pointless for this to ever be a problem), then I would be hurt and offended by the media treating me this way when clearly I'm not racist, I just got caught saying something they didn't like.  So if I find the way the media treat people hurtful and offensive, should they stop doing that too?

It seems like most people find these things offensive because the media tells them it's offensive.  As Redsgirl points out, you cannot say its ok for someone to say x, y, z and not for someone else, offence is completely subjective.  I'm offended by banality, but unfortunately I don't have the media to stick up for me.  Maybe I'm being discriminated against....

On a lighter note, I tend to think the perfect nickname is one that generates just the right amount of offense. It has to annoy the person without actually being offensive I find.

[theprawnidentity]

I think that might be the difference.  And I don't mean for this next part to sound like I'm saying racism isn't something that should be taken seriously.  

When I went through school we learnt all about racism and apartheid and all that went with it, part of Religious Education I believe.  As an example to us, at the start of one of our lessons our teacher (who was my form tutor as it happens), said that every in his tutor group had to sit on the left hand side of the room, and everyone else on the right.  This meant for the 4 or 5 of us in his tutor group we had a row of desks each and more space than you could ever need.

On the other side of the room were 25+ students who didn't have enough space get at a desk each and most of them had 2/3 to a desk.  He also spent the whole lesson letting us get away with whatever we wanted and absolutely hammering the other side of the room for the slightest little mistake / noise.  A great lesson and way to point out that how people have been treated in the past just isn't fair.  And what a great lesson too, this happened nearly 14 years ago and I've never forgot it.

The point of this story is that growing up, racism and discrimination has been completely academic.  A lot of younger people have absolutely no idea of what racism is, it's nothing more than a few words you're not meant to say.  Just to reinforce my point, I'm not saying that what happened in the past is academic / unimportant to everyone, but it's not really an issue that I've ever had to deal with (which might lead to some slightly naive views perhaps).  In some ways I think this a great sign that things are moving on.

On the lighter note, the best thing I've seen on nicknames, ever:

[AlunB]

The point of this story is that growing up, racism and discrimination has been completely academic.  A lot of younger people have absolutely no idea of what racism is, it's nothing more than a few words you're not meant to say.

Where did you grow up out of interest?

[theprawnidentity]

North Lincolnshire, my school was in a non-heard of town called Brigg.  And as I type this it strikes me that it may be very different for someone who grew up in a more densely populated environment.

[Redsgirl]

I'm a little confused by this post tomsom.
When you say media are you referring to newspapers or (as I meant it) any stuff that is put out there in the public domain?
If were talking red tops here everyone knows that they will say anything without any concience or scruples as long as it grabs attenion and sells copies, there trying to be controvesial, Racist Clarkson today, Ban the Burka tommorow, the people buying this kind of thing love having something to back them up when they're ranting through their tea break, stuff that doesn't have any real credibility.

But people like Clarkson, or Sports stars or Popstars are subtly influencing people, maybe without those people even realising, and that's dangerous ground.
If you are in the public eye then you really should know better and think hard about the image they are portraying.
Or, be prepared for the backlash.
I think you know this too or you wouldn't have used the word's 'caught saying something' in your post. Being caught implies your doing something wrong.

Also to be discriminated against means to be put at a disadvantage through no fault of your own,
not not having someone on your side when you don't like something!  

[AlunB]

On the lighter note, the best thing I've seen on nicknames, ever:

Confirmed brilliant

[theprawnidentity]

I meant caught as in caught on camera or caught on mic, not caught doing something wrong.  I actually re-worded this to avoid suggesting wrong doing.  [ ] went well.

I'll have to try and reword this later and try and put my point of view across more effectively.  It's a really tough subject to have a discussion about but I feel like it's one worth having.  I know that my views on the subject are very primitive and apart from 2 months spent working in South Africa, I don't have a great deal of knowledge on the matter but this is a discussion I'm actually looking to get something out of.

Confirmed brilliant

I just watched this and it's the edited Royal Variety version.  Still good though.  Mumbo is genius.

[Redsgirl]

I think that might be the difference.  And I don't mean for this next part to sound like I'm saying racism isn't something that should be taken seriously.  

When I went through school we learnt all about racism and apartheid and all that went with it, part of Religious Education I believe.  As an example to us, at the start of one of our lessons our teacher (who was my form tutor as it happens), said that every in his tutor group had to sit on the left hand side of the room, and everyone else on the right.  This meant for the 4 or 5 of us in his tutor group we had a row of desks each and more space than you could ever need.

On the other side of the room were 25+ students who didn't have enough space get at a desk each and most of them had 2/3 to a desk.  He also spent the whole lesson letting us get away with whatever we wanted and absolutely hammering the other side of the room for the slightest little mistake / noise.  A great lesson and way to point out that how people have been treated in the past just isn't fair.  And what a great lesson too, this happened nearly 14 years ago and I've never forgot it.

The point of this story is that growing up, racism and discrimination has been completely academic.  A lot of younger people have absolutely no idea of what racism is, it's nothing more than a few words you're not meant to say.  Just to reinforce my point, I'm not saying that what happened in the past is academic / unimportant to everyone, but it's not really an issue that I've ever had to deal with (which might lead to some slightly naive views perhaps).  In some ways I think this a great sign that things are moving on.

On the lighter note, the best thing I've seen on nicknames, ever:

This is really my point. It's not the confirmed racists who are the scariest, the radicals and the 'patriots' and the religious zealouts are out there, we aren't going to change their views but at least we know who they are.
It's the people who don't realise what their words and actions mean, who are gently swayed in a certain direction and never take responsibility for any of it that I worry about.

[Redsgirl]

I meant caught as in caught on camera or caught on mic, not caught doing something wrong.  I actually re-worded this to avoid suggesting wrong doing.  [ ] went well.

I'll have to try and reword this later and try and put my point of view across more effectively.  It's a really tough subject to have a discussion about but I feel like it's one worth having.  I know that my views on the subject are very primitive and apart from 2 months spent working in South Africa, I don't have a great deal of knowledge on the matter but this is a discussion I'm actually looking to get something out of.

Confirmed brilliant

I just watched this and it's the edited Royal Variety version.  Still good though.  Mumbo is genius.

Posts are crossing cos I'm the worlds slowest typer! And like you I'm really supposed to be doing something else. 
It is a great subject if you can talk about it without offence though, we'll get back to it later 

[mulhuzz]

The *ahem* Chunnel is 20 years old today.

Named as one of the seven wonders of the world by the American Society of Civil Engineers. I assume you're sitting in Folkestone having a little party to celebrate?

[Karabiner]

With all this defence of Clarkson's faux-pas is everyone saying that Big Ron was hard done by for exactly the same thing?

Big Ron was virtually frozen-out by all and sundry for a similar slip of the tongue when he thought that he was off air.

[AndrewT]

The thing I've found most amusing about all this is that the BBC have essentially admitted that all their employees can have one free use of the N-word at some point without repercussions.

I do hope lots of people take them up on this. Hopefully Fiona Bruce during the news, or David Dimbleby during Question Time. It would also liven up Bargain Hunt no end.

[mulhuzz]

With all this defence of Clarkson's faux-pas is everyone saying that Big Ron was hard done by for exactly the same thing?

Big Ron was virtually frozen-out by all and sundry for a similar slip of the tongue when he thought that he was off air.

No, Clarkson is aware what the word is an suppresses it (but not nearly enough, he should have clearly replaced it)


Big Ron used the word clearly and then attributed characteristics to Desailly on that basis.

Entirely different things. You can *maybe* let Clarkson off (I wouldn't, and I like the guy) but Big Ron has no place commentating with prejudices like that.