Vegas & The Aftermath - Diary

[mulhuzz]

Btw: I found this article/commentary very helpful in forming an opinion on Clarkson.

http://www.newstatesman.com/media/2014/05/n-word-jeremy-clarkson-has-finally-urinated-live-rail-racism

[ForthThistle]

How Many Blondes can you Find TK.

[Bad Beat]

 I completely disagree with your assertion that you'd be out of your class in the $10,000 PLO8. I'm not sure how you have come to the conclusion that there are a bunch of top-class PLO8 players who are pretty happy playing a $10,000 buy-in but would never lower themselves to play a $3,000 or $1,500 one. All the people who are top-class in this game will obviously play all 3.

 On top of those people you will get all the people who play every event possible who are generally top-class in all forms of poker like Ivey, Negreanu and Mercier in all 3.

 In the $1500 ones you will get a lot of people who are having some "cheap" fun playing an event in a game they are "trying out" but a lot of them will be smart PLO players and NLH players who are big winners in poker who wouldn't want to spend $10,000 on an experiment. Many of these are just the kind of players who are no value at all generally at the WSOP but they may add some value here. There are also lots of mid-stakes cash grinders who play $75-$150 O8 who are also no value to you in these. On top of all of this there are people that barely know the rules.

 Assuming most of these people don't make the transition to the $10,000 events you lose a lot of your value, but now you gain value from lots of ego-driven "big-name" PLO and NLH players who can't resist the lure of a small-field and a chance to win a prestigious bracelet. Yes Roland won the $5,000 PLO8 the 1st time he ever played the game but for every Roland there are a dozen others who are pretty much dead money in these ones.

 Obviously it will take 100s of years to prove it but I think if you could accurately measure the value of a Tikay dollar invested in the $1500 and compared it to one invested in the $10,000 you might be surprised to find they were pretty similar.

 You'll need a lot more of them to play the $10,000 one but you might find there are a few investors around here if you are lucky.


 (I forgot to mention that the quality of the field may be slightly better but so to will the structure which will massively favour those with experience of the game over those having a crack at something they haven't totally mastered).

[rfgqqabc]

There is a 10k plo8?!?!

[tikay]

There is a 10k plo8?!?!

No.

There is a $10,000 PLO, and a $10,000 LIMIT O8.

The biggest WSOP PLO8 is $3,000. There are only 2 PLO8 events on the WSOP schedule, the other is $1,500.

[tikay]

I completely disagree with your assertion that you'd be out of your class in the $10,000 PLO8. I'm not sure how you have come to the conclusion that there are a bunch of top-class PLO8 players who are pretty happy playing a $10,000 buy-in but would never lower themselves to play a $3,000 or $1,500 one. All the people who are top-class in this game will obviously play all 3.

 On top of those people you will get all the people who play every event possible who are generally top-class in all forms of poker like Ivey, Negreanu and Mercier in all 3.

 In the $1500 ones you will get a lot of people who are having some "cheap" fun playing an event in a game they are "trying out" but a lot of them will be smart PLO players and NLH players who are big winners in poker who wouldn't want to spend $10,000 on an experiment. Many of these are just the kind of players who are no value at all generally at the WSOP but they may add some value here. There are also lots of mid-stakes cash grinders who play $75-$150 O8 who are also no value to you in these. On top of all of this there are people that barely know the rules.

 Assuming most of these people don't make the transition to the $10,000 events you lose a lot of your value, but now you gain value from lots of ego-driven "big-name" PLO and NLH players who can't resist the lure of a small-field and a chance to win a prestigious bracelet. Yes Roland won the $5,000 PLO8 the 1st time he ever played the game but for every Roland there are a dozen others who are pretty much dead money in these ones.

 Obviously it will take 100s of years to prove it but I think if you could accurately measure the value of a Tikay dollar invested in the $1500 and compared it to one invested in the $10,000 you might be surprised to find they were pretty similar.

 You'll need a lot more of them to play the $10,000 one but you might find there are a few investors around here if you are lucky.


 (I forgot to mention that the quality of the field may be slightly better but so to will the structure which will massively favour those with experience of the game over those having a crack at something they haven't totally mastered).

Thanks Lord G.

Am out and about this morning, will reply later.

[Bad Beat]

 Damn. Wish I'd looked at the schedule before posting. If there isn't a PLO8 $10,000 then the above was rather pointless. I don't think you should play a $10,000 event in a format you are not familiar with obviously.

[Rod Paradise]

With all this defence of Clarkson's faux-pas is everyone saying that Big Ron was hard done by for exactly the same thing?

Big Ron was virtually frozen-out by all and sundry for a similar slip of the tongue when he thought that he was off air.

No, Clarkson is aware what the word is an suppresses it (but not nearly enough, he should have clearly replaced it)


Big Ron used the word clearly and then attributed characteristics to Desailly on that basis.

Entirely different things. You can *maybe* let Clarkson off (I wouldn't, and I like the guy) but Big Ron has no place commentating with prejudices like that.

Funny, I can't stand Clarkson, but think way too much has been made of his cock up, I don't really think he should have had a case to answer on that one. Big Ron, totally agree, he had to go for that.

[tikay]

Damn. Wish I'd looked at the schedule before posting. If there isn't a PLO8 $10,000 then the above was rather pointless. I don't think you should play a $10,000 event in a format you are not familiar with obviously.

Morning Lord G.

I feel rather bad now that you posted all that, & it turned out to be a bit of a red herring.

So, I shall reply anyway, as it got me thinking.

[tikay]

I completely disagree with your assertion that you'd be out of your class in the $10,000 PLO8. I'm not sure how you have come to the conclusion that there are a bunch of top-class PLO8 players who are pretty happy playing a $10,000 buy-in but would never lower themselves to play a $3,000 or $1,500 one. All the people who are top-class in this game will obviously play all 3.

 On top of those people you will get all the people who play every event possible who are generally top-class in all forms of poker like Ivey, Negreanu and Mercier in all 3.

 In the $1500 ones you will get a lot of people who are having some "cheap" fun playing an event in a game they are "trying out" but a lot of them will be smart PLO players and NLH players who are big winners in poker who wouldn't want to spend $10,000 on an experiment. Many of these are just the kind of players who are no value at all generally at the WSOP but they may add some value here. There are also lots of mid-stakes cash grinders who play $75-$150 O8 who are also no value to you in these. On top of all of this there are people that barely know the rules.

 Assuming most of these people don't make the transition to the $10,000 events you lose a lot of your value, but now you gain value from lots of ego-driven "big-name" PLO and NLH players who can't resist the lure of a small-field and a chance to win a prestigious bracelet. Yes Roland won the $5,000 PLO8 the 1st time he ever played the game but for every Roland there are a dozen others who are pretty much dead money in these ones.

 Obviously it will take 100s of years to prove it but I think if you could accurately measure the value of a Tikay dollar invested in the $1500 and compared it to one invested in the $10,000 you might be surprised to find they were pretty similar.

 You'll need a lot more of them to play the $10,000 one but you might find there are a few investors around here if you are lucky.


 (I forgot to mention that the quality of the field may be slightly better but so to will the structure which will massively favour those with experience of the game over those having a crack at something they haven't totally mastered).

Your reply suggests to me that the same logic would NOT apply in PLO.

As it happens, the $10,000 PLO is very late in the series, & I expect to be back home before then.

I think my real problem is lack of confidence, allied to lack of gamble & bottle. It's just so much money.

You wrote something which really set me thinking......


I forgot to mention that the quality of the field may be slightly better but so to will the structure which will massively favour those with experience of the game over those having a crack at something they haven't totally mastered


I honestly think, oddly enough, that I tick BOTH those boxes.

It made me go look at my THM, & what I found struck me as quite interesting.

(More follows).

[tikay]

So, I went & had a look at my "Live" Omaha results (lifetime) on THM, & this is what I found.....



12-Jun-2003       £ 100 Pot Limit Omaha
Summer Festival 2003, Sheffield    5th    £ 1,140    $ 1,883


25-Sep-2003       £ 100 + 10 Pot Limit Omaha
Northern Challenge 2003, Salford    6th    £ 370    $ 611


27-Feb-2004       £ 250 + 25 Pot Limit Omaha
Midlands Medley 2004, Walsall    8th    £ 830    $ 1,543


07-May-2004       £ 100 Pot Limit Omaha
Blackpool Bonanza, Blackpool    4th    £ 3,690    $ 6,556


14-Jun-2004       € 500 Pot Limit Omaha
2004 World Heads Up Poker Championships, Barcelona    9th    € 1,900    $ 2,301


30-Sep-2004       £ 150 Pot Limit Omaha/Texas Hold'em
Sheffield Autumn Festival, Sheffield    3rd    £ 2,220    $ 4,023


25-Mar-2005       € 400 + 40 Pot Limit Omaha
The Irish Poker Festival 2005, Dublin    9th    € 530    $ 688


12-Apr-2007       £ 250 Pot Limit Omaha
Springfest 2007, Luton    1st    £ 4,490    $ 8,823


05-Mar-2008       £ 100 + 10 Wednesday Pot Limit Omaha Freezeout
2008 Dusk Till Dawn Recurring Tournaments, Nottingham    4th    £ 210    $ 417


02-Apr-2008       £ 100 + 10 Wednesday Pot Limit Omaha Freezeout
2008 Dusk Till Dawn Recurring Tournaments, Nottingham    4th    £ 170    $ 337


20-Jun-2012       $ 230 Pot Limit Omaha
The Grand Poker Series 2012, Las Vegas    1st       $ 2,980


20-Jun-2013       $ 300 Pot Limit Omaha - Six Max
Binions Poker Classic, Las Vegas    3rd       $ 1,710


24-Jun-2013       $ 230 Pot Limit Omaha / Pot Limit Omaha Hi Lo
The Grand Poker Series 2013, Las Vegas    2nd       $ 2,183


20-Feb-2014       £ 500 + 50 Pot Limit Omaha
The SkyPoker UK Poker Championships, Nottingham    2nd    £ 7,000    $ 11,681

[tikay]

That seems to suggest I've got the experience, though certainly not "mastered" it, not at all.

Amazing really, I never realised I had played much PLO. I have a good few PLO cashes fom places like Binions, too, which never made THM.

Note though they are all small-ball Tourneys, & I tended to finish 6th/7th/8th back in the day, whilst more recently, I've been much more aggressive, & averaged higher finishes. (Or earlier bust-outs, presumably).

When I read the Level 4 stuff that the likes of Lil Dave, rfqhkujfygjhgggy & Conky Cos post, my eyes glaze over, I literally have no idea what they are talking about. I just peddle A-B-C stuff really.

Cannot BEGIN to tell you how much I love playing PLO & PLO8 though.

I almost played that 5 Card PLO SCOOP jobbie last night, but I sort of bottled it in the end. I've not played on 'Stars for (literally) about 10 years, so I downloaded it last night & had a bit of a look round, wow, they have so many different MTT's going off, incred.

[tikay]

You also mention PLO8 players who "don't know the rules".

I think that also applies, though less so, to PLO.

In that huge field GUKPT Brighton Omaha last week (well, 3 table SNG....), we were down to 11 players, & a chap CALLED all-in with the bare Ace of hearts on a 4 hearts board. He only had that one heart in his hand........a whole new dimension to the "bare ace" trick. 

[tikay]

Apologies, concrete & bridge lovers, but once I start nattering about PLO & PLO8 I can't stop.

In that Brighton thing, I saw a fairly rare example of really bad manners/lack of grace.

Bit of pre-flop action, 2 players, comes J-9-3 rainbow. 

Pot, re-pot, dwell.......

Re-potter obviously has J-J-x-x, & his body language was screaming CALL ME.

Dweller, tight as a tight thing, obviously has the Aces, or is wrapped round the J-9.

After a monster dwell, Aces man calls. Yup, Aces.

At which, J-J man SLAMS his cards down, giveds the table a trible-bang, & shouts  YES YES YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.

He's a happy a bunny as you ever saw.

Inevitably, the river was an Ace, & J-J man is busto.

And what did he say?

"What a spasticated call you fucking donkey".

30 seconds earlier, he LOVED that call, he was inwardly BEGGING the guy to call.

Jeez, I don't like to see/hear that sort of stuff.

Don't ever recall words like spasticated being used face to face in Live poker before, either.

Guess the times them are a changing.

[tikay]

I actually think that almost all "middle-aged & up" NLH players should give PLO a try. Conky Cos is a great example, I suppose.

It really is tough to have an edge in NLH these days, & so many of the lads work so hard to find that edge, it's really tough to beat them.

I was conversing with a long-time blonde & very experienced NLH player a week or two ago. GREAT player, earned a living from NLH for many years, but finding the going tough these days.

I've never given him advice before, & doubt I will again, he is up on the mountain top & I'm plodding along in the foothills, but I suggested he try PLO, as I do think the nature of the game very much suits older players. I don't have much evidence to back that up, but I bet I'm right.    

OK, back to concrete & bridges & stuff.

That Malayasian Airlines /plane has now been missing over 2 months, & not a sight or sound has been seen or found, they don't even know where to start looking. What an amazing thing.