Vegas & The Aftermath - Diary

[bobby1]

if people want to deal everyone has to agree
if people want a deal it has to be done to the formula

that way people dont feel harrased into making an unfair deal

Yes, that's the idea of it. The harassment in deal-making is horrendous at times, & leads to so much ill-feeling. Which is why I almost always "sit out" in these things.

I never know what to do in these circumstances - invariably I have to ask someone for guidance. I'm not sure if it's the heat of the game but I can't see the wood for the trees in these situations. Did a chop at Luton a few weeks ago between the last 4 and wasn't sure if it was a good deal - went to ask Tikay who, in unison with everyone else at the cash table, told me it was a great deal and to get back there before they changed their minds.

Does anyone have a guide as to when/what to do - I know it's got a million variables - but any basic ideas?

How do you work it out?

Im of the opinion that deals should only be discussed by the players still in the comp, this was the rule where I first started playing live and I like it.

So what rules would you apply when agreeing to a deal then?

Make sure you understand what % of the chips you have in the comp, convert that to a % of the prize money and see where that leaves you in regards to the official prizes. Depending on how many are left of course but I would always ask for more than entitled to and work back from there if there is  no agreement, if its not good  dont deal, some comps you will get less but some you will win.

In the casino I frequented, Laurence Gosney was 3 handed with one of my friends that I had a decent share in. The other guy suggested that they give Gosney(who was rampant) first prize as he was chip leader and the other two split 2nd and 3rd between em, Gosney didnt say a word, knowing that this was unbelievable business, my mate was happy with the £1200 he was getting and I had to stand there knowing this was a terrible deal for them. Afterwards I explained why it was bad business and he learnt why, so in the long run he got more experienced in deals.

[Karabiner]

Making favourable deals has always been one of my strengths.....

[Bongo]

It also seems like a rule specifically designed to allow people to take advantage of others inexperience

I dont understand your point Bongo, a rule is made for everyone to adhere to, the experience or inexperience of the players isnt a factor at all. Let me ask you this,why should an experienced player allow someone less experienced to go and talk a deal over with half the casino?

Why not?

The only possible reason I can see why they wouldn't is because they are offering an unfavourable deal in the first place!

[bobby1]

It also seems like a rule specifically designed to allow people to take advantage of others inexperience

I dont understand your point Bongo, a rule is made for everyone to adhere to, the experience or inexperience of the players isnt a factor at all. Let me ask you this,why should an experienced player allow someone less experienced to go and talk a deal over with half the casino?

Why not?

The only possible reason I can see why they wouldn't is because they are offering an unfavourable deal in the first place!

yes but why would they be offering deals that favoured the other guy??

[Bongo]

I read a post here not long ago where an inexperienced player did just that...

[Dingdell]

I agree that it's a learning curve but if one of the players objected to me going to ask someone elses opinion that would only make me suspicious that the deal I'm being offered is bad. That sort of attitude may make the whole thing less friendly (I know we're not there to make friends) but as over 80% of players are social players if you start laying down the law and making something unfriendly you may stop them coming back and reduce the value.
What is the harm in them consulting a mate of they're not sure?

What about if you're being paid to play? I saw a very well known professional a year or so ago go and speak to his backer before a deal was struck. Is that also a no no?

[boldie]

I agree that it's a learning curve but if one of the players objected to me going to ask someone elses opinion that would only make me suspicious that the deal I'm being offered is bad. That sort of attitude may make the whole thing less friendly (I know we're not there to make friends) but as over 80% of players are social players if you start laying down the law and making something unfriendly you may stop them coming back and reduce the value.
What is the harm in them consulting a mate of they're not sure?

What about if you're being paid to play? I saw a very well known professional a year or so ago go and speak to his backer before a deal was struck. Is that also a no no?

people objecting to you speaking to somebody else before you agree to a deal?..Never heard of it and I wouldn't give a toss what they'd say. Nothing wrong with it. Your friends "offering" advice without being asked and speaking loudly over the table is a big no-no in my opinion (I have heard this happen many a time..some drunken twat telling his mate not to take a fair deal because of whatever reason..ussually when his mate is not chipleader and actually shortstack but "has an edge" according to drunken idot mate)

If you want to talk to someone about it before doing a deal you do that..but away from the table.

[bobby1]

I agree that it's a learning curve but if one of the players objected to me going to ask someone elses opinion that would only make me suspicious that the deal I'm being offered is bad. That sort of attitude may make the whole thing less friendly (I know we're not there to make friends) but as over 80% of players are social players if you start laying down the law and making something unfriendly you may stop them coming back and reduce the value.
What is the harm in them consulting a mate of they're not sure?

What about if you're being paid to play? I saw a very well known professional a year or so ago go and speak to his backer before a deal was struck. Is that also a no no?

people objecting to you speaking to somebody else before you agree to a deal?..Never heard of it and I wouldn't give a toss what they'd say. Nothing wrong with it. Your friends "offering" advice without being asked and speaking loudly over the table is a big no-no in my opinion (I have heard this happen many a time..some drunken twat telling his mate not to take a fair deal because of whatever reason..ussually when his mate is not chipleader and actually shortstack but "has an edge" according to drunken idot mate)

If you want to talk to someone about it before doing a deal you do that..but away from the table.

I assume thats the reason for the players only rule in that casino.

[boldie]

I agree that it's a learning curve but if one of the players objected to me going to ask someone elses opinion that would only make me suspicious that the deal I'm being offered is bad. That sort of attitude may make the whole thing less friendly (I know we're not there to make friends) but as over 80% of players are social players if you start laying down the law and making something unfriendly you may stop them coming back and reduce the value.
What is the harm in them consulting a mate of they're not sure?

What about if you're being paid to play? I saw a very well known professional a year or so ago go and speak to his backer before a deal was struck. Is that also a no no?

people objecting to you speaking to somebody else before you agree to a deal?..Never heard of it and I wouldn't give a toss what they'd say. Nothing wrong with it. Your friends "offering" advice without being asked and speaking loudly over the table is a big no-no in my opinion (I have heard this happen many a time..some drunken twat telling his mate not to take a fair deal because of whatever reason..ussually when his mate is not chipleader and actually shortstack but "has an edge" according to drunken idot mate)

If you want to talk to someone about it before doing a deal you do that..but away from the table.

I assume thats the reason for the players only rule in that casino.

fair enough.

[Dingdell]

I did a deal in vegas but all discussions had to take place away from the table - the management insisted on it. They wanted to go into the 'john' but i insisted they discuss it all outside the loo.

What I don't like is when it becomes obvious that some of the players have made a deal in the break when you're on the final table - this has happened twice to me - and i wasn't involved in the discussion. On both occasions I have 'mentioned' it quietly to the management to ensure no soft play - but it's often difficult to prove.

[bobby1]

I agree that it's a learning curve but if one of the players objected to me going to ask someone elses opinion that would only make me suspicious that the deal I'm being offered is bad. That sort of attitude may make the whole thing less friendly (I know we're not there to make friends) but as over 80% of players are social players if you start laying down the law and making something unfriendly you may stop them coming back and reduce the value.
What is the harm in them consulting a mate of they're not sure?

What about if you're being paid to play? I saw a very well known professional a year or so ago go and speak to his backer before a deal was struck. Is that also a no no?

you are deffo right about the karma being affected in some cases and i cant disagree that given the rule in most Casino you are entitled to seek advice from whoever you want its just that I prefer it that the players are the only ones involved, a lot of the probs that Boldie talks of are eliminated from the procedure.

[Dingdell]

I agree that it's a learning curve but if one of the players objected to me going to ask someone elses opinion that would only make me suspicious that the deal I'm being offered is bad. That sort of attitude may make the whole thing less friendly (I know we're not there to make friends) but as over 80% of players are social players if you start laying down the law and making something unfriendly you may stop them coming back and reduce the value.
What is the harm in them consulting a mate of they're not sure?

What about if you're being paid to play? I saw a very well known professional a year or so ago go and speak to his backer before a deal was struck. Is that also a no no?

people objecting to you speaking to somebody else before you agree to a deal?..Never heard of it and I wouldn't give a toss what they'd say. Nothing wrong with it. Your friends "offering" advice without being asked and speaking loudly over the table is a big no-no in my opinion (I have heard this happen many a time..some drunken twat telling his mate not to take a fair deal because of whatever reason..ussually when his mate is not chipleader and actually shortstack but "has an edge" according to drunken idot mate)
If you want to talk to someone about it before doing a deal you do that..but away from the table.

Ah yes - i thought I had apologised about that - Tikay is a great railer and loyal to the end. I've asked him not to drink at the tables again and he has promised........

[boldie]

I agree that it's a learning curve but if one of the players objected to me going to ask someone elses opinion that would only make me suspicious that the deal I'm being offered is bad. That sort of attitude may make the whole thing less friendly (I know we're not there to make friends) but as over 80% of players are social players if you start laying down the law and making something unfriendly you may stop them coming back and reduce the value.
What is the harm in them consulting a mate of they're not sure?

What about if you're being paid to play? I saw a very well known professional a year or so ago go and speak to his backer before a deal was struck. Is that also a no no?

people objecting to you speaking to somebody else before you agree to a deal?..Never heard of it and I wouldn't give a toss what they'd say. Nothing wrong with it. Your friends "offering" advice without being asked and speaking loudly over the table is a big no-no in my opinion (I have heard this happen many a time..some drunken twat telling his mate not to take a fair deal because of whatever reason..ussually when his mate is not chipleader and actually shortstack but "has an edge" according to drunken idot mate)
If you want to talk to someone about it before doing a deal you do that..but away from the table.

Ah yes - i thought I had apologised about that - Tikay is a great railer and loyal to the end. I've asked him not to drink at the tables again and he has promised........

yeah...that wasn't the worst of it though..those trainstories he shouts over to put everyone to sleep..that's well out of order..

[bobby1]

I agree that it's a learning curve but if one of the players objected to me going to ask someone elses opinion that would only make me suspicious that the deal I'm being offered is bad. That sort of attitude may make the whole thing less friendly (I know we're not there to make friends) but as over 80% of players are social players if you start laying down the law and making something unfriendly you may stop them coming back and reduce the value.
What is the harm in them consulting a mate of they're not sure?

What about if you're being paid to play? I saw a very well known professional a year or so ago go and speak to his backer before a deal was struck. Is that also a no no?

people objecting to you speaking to somebody else before you agree to a deal?..Never heard of it and I wouldn't give a toss what they'd say. Nothing wrong with it. Your friends "offering" advice without being asked and speaking loudly over the table is a big no-no in my opinion (I have heard this happen many a time..some drunken twat telling his mate not to take a fair deal because of whatever reason..ussually when his mate is not chipleader and actually shortstack but "has an edge" according to drunken idot mate)
If you want to talk to someone about it before doing a deal you do that..but away from the table.

Ah yes - i thought I had apologised about that - Tikay is a great railer and loyal to the end. I've asked him not to drink at the tables again and he has promised........

lol

[Dingdell]

I agree that it's a learning curve but if one of the players objected to me going to ask someone elses opinion that would only make me suspicious that the deal I'm being offered is bad. That sort of attitude may make the whole thing less friendly (I know we're not there to make friends) but as over 80% of players are social players if you start laying down the law and making something unfriendly you may stop them coming back and reduce the value.
What is the harm in them consulting a mate of they're not sure?

What about if you're being paid to play? I saw a very well known professional a year or so ago go and speak to his backer before a deal was struck. Is that also a no no?

people objecting to you speaking to somebody else before you agree to a deal?..Never heard of it and I wouldn't give a toss what they'd say. Nothing wrong with it. Your friends "offering" advice without being asked and speaking loudly over the table is a big no-no in my opinion (I have heard this happen many a time..some drunken twat telling his mate not to take a fair deal because of whatever reason..ussually when his mate is not chipleader and actually shortstack but "has an edge" according to drunken idot mate)
If you want to talk to someone about it before doing a deal you do that..but away from the table.

Ah yes - i thought I had apologised about that - Tikay is a great railer and loyal to the end. I've asked him not to drink at the tables again and he has promised........

yeah...that wasn't the worst of it though..those trainstories he shouts over to put everyone to sleep..that's well out of order..

The saddest thing is I think they may be having an affect - I was looking for somewhere to go for a few days and I happened across the Isle of Man.  I read this: 

The Isle of Man Steam Railway is the longest narrow-gauge steam line in the British Isles, running for 16 miles through glorious countryside between Douglas and Port Erin. The Port Erin Railway Museum tells the incredible story of Manx steam railways.

and I thought "Oooh - that might be interesting" 

How scary is that???    I think he is subliminally getting to us all