Vegas & The Aftermath - Diary

[kenjude]

it truly amazes me that a drug which is well known to create feelings of paranoia is regarded as performance enhancing because is stops you being scared.
 

If a drug infuences judgement then it could be considered to be performance-affecting in some sports. I wouldn't want anyone who's performance was reduced, or their judgement impaired, riding a horse of mine, or driving a sportscar that cost me millions to build.

And where do you draw the line? The "danger to others" scenario doesn't apply throughout all sports, but can you really legislate specifically by sport?

[gatso]

but can you really legislate specifically by sport?

yes, of course, 100%, that's the way it is done now.

each sport has a governing body that does this on a day to day basis, has it's own rules and it's own penalties.

for bodies such as the IOC to interfere with blanket rules is ridic.

[Geo the Sarge]

I agree.  If he'd been smoking weed then he wasn't trying to cheat.  He was just stupid.

The penalty for smoking weed shouldn't be too punitive, and should in fact be less than the charge of missing a test (which could be hiding the use of performance-enhancing drugs).  To be honest, I don't know what the penalties are for the different offences.  Does anyone know the ranges of punishments?

The penalty for taking performance-enhancing drugs should be severe. 

Recreational or performance enhancing shouldn't make a difference.

Top sporstmen/women are revered by youngsters and only set a bad example. Should we be saying, it's ok Rio, you only did a bit of weed (if that's what he did), it doesn't enhance your onfield performance...........to hell with those that idolise you and will see fit to copy you?

Geo

I TOTALLY disagree Geo. The 'set a good example argument' infuriates me - if someone is good at football/music/acting it does not mean they have to live to different standards to anyone else. If Telecom Engineering became the next big spectator sport (if cricket can be popular you never know ) - I'm not missing an Amsterdam trip, a bevvy session, or a poker game because I'm a bad example to the kids.

THe responsibility for kids knowing what's right/wrong & dangerous lies with the parents NOT their entertainers.

In this day and age of ever increasing bad-parenting, it is IMO, important that kids do have role models elsewhere. What better place than the world of sport.

Therefore I believe that people who earn a fortune from the public and are in the public eye should live to higher standards, by your definition of "different standards" are you assuming that taking drugs is the norm??

Top athletes/sports stars rely heavily on the revenue gained by these youngsters buying products/tickets/mags and even clothing associated with their sports. I don't think it unreasonable that we ask for them to give something back.

I totally detest drugs, at any level and have had first hand experience of decent youngsters being drawn into the mire having initially tried the "soft" drugs like marijuana. This often leads to the thrill of seeking bigger highs and moving on to the likes of heroin (which is rife here in Edinburgh and probably cheaper that weed, fags and alcohol) and cocaine.

Not only in sport but in Films/music etc we see so many top stars let off lightly when caught more often cos they have the money to say "ok, I'll go into rehab and everything will be good."

It's not only drugs (Pete docherty), it's alcohol (George Best), it's violence (Joey Barton) time and time again we hear the likes claiming that they won't do it again only to end up repeating past histories.

Oh, and I'm sure if sports stars can have things like not riding motorcycle in their contracts that there will be some clubs who do have a no-drugs clause.

Just my thoughts on it, from  a parent who grew up amongst it all in Granton, Leith and Pilton during the "Irvine Welsh years" (what a load of tosh they books were, fun to read but totally off in what was happening there at the time.)

Geo

[Rod Paradise]

I agree.  If he'd been smoking weed then he wasn't trying to cheat.  He was just stupid.

The penalty for smoking weed shouldn't be too punitive, and should in fact be less than the charge of missing a test (which could be hiding the use of performance-enhancing drugs).  To be honest, I don't know what the penalties are for the different offences.  Does anyone know the ranges of punishments?

The penalty for taking performance-enhancing drugs should be severe. 

Recreational or performance enhancing shouldn't make a difference.

Top sporstmen/women are revered by youngsters and only set a bad example. Should we be saying, it's ok Rio, you only did a bit of weed (if that's what he did), it doesn't enhance your onfield performance...........to hell with those that idolise you and will see fit to copy you?

Geo

I TOTALLY disagree Geo. The 'set a good example argument' infuriates me - if someone is good at football/music/acting it does not mean they have to live to different standards to anyone else. If Telecom Engineering became the next big spectator sport (if cricket can be popular you never know ) - I'm not missing an Amsterdam trip, a bevvy session, or a poker game because I'm a bad example to the kids.

THe responsibility for kids knowing what's right/wrong & dangerous lies with the parents NOT their entertainers.

In this day and age of ever increasing bad-parenting, it is IMO, important that kids do have role models elsewhere. What better place than the world of sport.

Therefore I believe that people who earn a fortune from the public and are in the public eye should live to higher standards, by your definition of "different standards" are you assuming that taking drugs is the norm??

Top athletes/sports stars rely heavily on the revenue gained by these youngsters buying products/tickets/mags and even clothing associated with their sports. I don't think it unreasonable that we ask for them to give something back.

I totally detest drugs, at any level and have had first hand experience of decent youngsters being drawn into the mire having initially tried the "soft" drugs like marijuana. This often leads to the thrill of seeking bigger highs and moving on to the likes of heroin (which is rife here in Edinburgh and probably cheaper that weed, fags and alcohol) and cocaine.

Not only in sport but in Films/music etc we see so many top stars let off lightly when caught more often cos they have the money to say "ok, I'll go into rehab and everything will be good."

It's not only drugs (Pete docherty), it's alcohol (George Best), it's violence (Joey Barton) time and time again we hear the likes claiming that they won't do it again only to end up repeating past histories.

Oh, and I'm sure if sports stars can have things like not riding motorcycle in their contracts that there will be some clubs who do have a no-drugs clause.

Just my thoughts on it, from  a parent who grew up amongst it all in Granton, Leith and Pilton during the "Irvine Welsh years" (what a load of tosh they books were, fun to read but totally off in what was happening there at the time.)

Geo

Drug taking IS the norm now Geo. And that's without adding the legal drugs into it.

If I become famous (as opposed to infamous which is probably more likely) what right has ANYBODY to tell me I've to conform to their rules and boundries of behaviour? A footballer is selling his skills to people that want to pay to watch them, not his personal sense of right and wrong.

As far as the Hash is a gateway drug - that's nonsense - it's completely cart before horse. The problem is to get hash you need to contact dealers (directly or indirectly) and they are already breaking the law - they have a clear financial interest in upselling on to harder drugs. Ask the Dutch if it's a gateway drug - not by their findings, but they've broken the link to the harder drug suppliers.

The biggest problem in this country is we want to legislate for people's own good, and we demand that because the law says no that people respect it.

UK Way - Kids underage sex is wrong!! Ignore the instincts and built in urges in your body"" The Law says NO!! - failure

Dutch Way - Kids, sex is good, and fun, but you need to protect yourself, it's better when there's genuine loving involved & no-one has the right to make you join in if you don't want to. - Teenage pregnancy, STD infection rate & molestation - all significantly less than ours.

Similarly with drugs - simply telling kids their bad, or to ask Frank doesn't cut it - the kids think the adults are lying and do their own thing. Education and honesty & clean drugs would be the best way ahead - but insted we lie, force exposure to criminals & drugs cut with f$%£ knows what at exorbitant  (but dropping) prices & criminalise the users.

It's not worked yet - why will it in the future?

[boldie]

yeah!..Legalise the sex!

[Rod Paradise]

yeah!..Legalise the sex!

Piss of German - you know how the laws over there work - between similar ages is OK, thus not criminalising the kids doing what comes naturally.

[boldie]

yeah!..Legalise the sex!

Piss of German - you know how the laws over there work - between similar ages is OK, thus not criminalising the kids doing what comes naturally.

MrsB says sex is illegal in the UK!

[Rod Paradise]

yeah!..Legalise the sex!

Piss of German - you know how the laws over there work - between similar ages is OK, thus not criminalising the kids doing what comes naturally.

MrsB says sex is illegal in the UK!

One good way to keep you at a distance - Well done Mrs B!!!

[Geo the Sarge]

I agree.  If he'd been smoking weed then he wasn't trying to cheat.  He was just stupid.

The penalty for smoking weed shouldn't be too punitive, and should in fact be less than the charge of missing a test (which could be hiding the use of performance-enhancing drugs).  To be honest, I don't know what the penalties are for the different offences.  Does anyone know the ranges of punishments?

The penalty for taking performance-enhancing drugs should be severe. 

Recreational or performance enhancing shouldn't make a difference.

Top sporstmen/women are revered by youngsters and only set a bad example. Should we be saying, it's ok Rio, you only did a bit of weed (if that's what he did), it doesn't enhance your onfield performance...........to hell with those that idolise you and will see fit to copy you?

Geo

I TOTALLY disagree Geo. The 'set a good example argument' infuriates me - if someone is good at football/music/acting it does not mean they have to live to different standards to anyone else. If Telecom Engineering became the next big spectator sport (if cricket can be popular you never know ) - I'm not missing an Amsterdam trip, a bevvy session, or a poker game because I'm a bad example to the kids.

THe responsibility for kids knowing what's right/wrong & dangerous lies with the parents NOT their entertainers.

In this day and age of ever increasing bad-parenting, it is IMO, important that kids do have role models elsewhere. What better place than the world of sport.

Therefore I believe that people who earn a fortune from the public and are in the public eye should live to higher standards, by your definition of "different standards" are you assuming that taking drugs is the norm??

Top athletes/sports stars rely heavily on the revenue gained by these youngsters buying products/tickets/mags and even clothing associated with their sports. I don't think it unreasonable that we ask for them to give something back.

I totally detest drugs, at any level and have had first hand experience of decent youngsters being drawn into the mire having initially tried the "soft" drugs like marijuana. This often leads to the thrill of seeking bigger highs and moving on to the likes of heroin (which is rife here in Edinburgh and probably cheaper that weed, fags and alcohol) and cocaine.

Not only in sport but in Films/music etc we see so many top stars let off lightly when caught more often cos they have the money to say "ok, I'll go into rehab and everything will be good."

It's not only drugs (Pete docherty), it's alcohol (George Best), it's violence (Joey Barton) time and time again we hear the likes claiming that they won't do it again only to end up repeating past histories.

Oh, and I'm sure if sports stars can have things like not riding motorcycle in their contracts that there will be some clubs who do have a no-drugs clause.

Just my thoughts on it, from  a parent who grew up amongst it all in Granton, Leith and Pilton during the "Irvine Welsh years" (what a load of tosh they books were, fun to read but totally off in what was happening there at the time.)

Geo

Drug taking IS the norm now Geo. And that's without adding the legal drugs into it.

If I become famous (as opposed to infamous which is probably more likely) what right has ANYBODY to tell me I've to conform to their rules and boundries of behaviour? A footballer is selling his skills to people that want to pay to watch them, not his personal sense of right and wrong.

As far as the Hash is a gateway drug - that's nonsense - it's completely cart before horse. The problem is to get hash you need to contact dealers (directly or indirectly) and they are already breaking the law - they have a clear financial interest in upselling on to harder drugs. Ask the Dutch if it's a gateway drug - not by their findings, but they've broken the link to the harder drug suppliers.

This paragraph contradicts itself and gives another reason why Hash is a gateway drug. Just cos one country has laws that differ doesn't make it right, like Americas gun laws, or would you prefer we all tooled up to protect ourselves, godknows it's getting as bad here.

The biggest problem in this country is we want to legislate for people's own good, and we demand that because the law says no that people respect it.

UK Way - Kids underage sex is wrong!! Ignore the instincts and built in urges in your body"" The Law says NO!! - failure

Underage sex is wrong, yes but no but Vicky Pollard might be amusing as a sketch in a comedy show but in reality there are many like her and they and there children suffer greatly.

Dutch Way - Kids, sex is good, and fun, but you need to protect yourself, it's better when there's genuine loving involved & no-one has the right to make you join in if you don't want to. - Teenage pregnancy, STD infection rate & molestation - all significantly less than ours.

Similarly with drugs - simply telling kids their bad, or to ask Frank doesn't cut it - the kids think the adults are lying and do their own thing. Education and honesty & clean drugs would be the best way ahead - but insted we lie, force exposure to criminals & drugs cut with f$%£ knows what at exorbitant  (but dropping) prices & criminalise the users.

Nice pun............Education should be anti all drugs, all drugs harm at some level.

It's not worked yet - why will it in the future?

So let's give up and let them destroy themselves??

Apologies Tikay if you feel the threads being hi-jacked, however I'm sure it's designed to create feedback.

Geo

[Rod Paradise]

Geo, the hash paragraph doesn't contradict itself in the slightest. Smoking hash does not make you want to take cocaine/heroin/whatever.

But similarly to the rest of my argument you're missing the point. If the law said the best way to win a poker game was to go all-in blind every hand it might be successful once in a while, but it'd still not be effective. Similarly when the current ways of trying to 'protect' kids and to cut drug-related crime aren't working, and elsewhere they are having more success, to say that there are lots of Vicki Pollards is to admit that the current morality ruled garbage that kids are force fed is not working. To advocate continuing it instead of looking at what does work but offends the 'moral majority' is a diservice to the kids in this country.


The last sentence is nonsense Geo - I've suggested other ways which are shown to have worked, you're advocating the status quo.

[boldie]

And for TJ; If you thought the Shannon Matthews story was strange/cruel and everything that could be wrong with the world.
..how sick and greedy do you have to be to think "I'll ask for money from the McCann fund to make a few quid"?


From the BBC Website;

"Shannon-McCann fund link probed 
 
Karen Matthews is being questioned at Wakefield police station
Claims the Madeleine McCann fund was approached for money to assist the search for Shannon Matthews are being investigated by police.

It is understood during the time nine-year-old Shannon was missing, the McCann family was asked for money towards helping find the schoolgirl.

West Yorkshire Police said it had been in touch with fund representatives.

One man has been charged with abducting Shannon. Her mother, Karen Matthews, has been arrested.

The Madeleine fund was set up to help in the search for the three-year-old who has not been seen since she went missing in Portugal in May last year.

It is understood one request to the fund was made by a man claiming to be a freelance journalist who was seeking money to help in the search for Shannon.

 
Shannon Matthews was missing for 24 days before being found
The Madeleine fund later received a one-line email asking for money, and on another occasion someone claiming to be close to Shannon's mother made a call to representatives of the McCanns.

Officers from West Yorkshire Police confirmed they are investigating the alleged approaches to the McCanns.

Meanwhile, detectives continue to question Shannon's mother, Karen Matthews.

The 32-year-old is being held on suspicion to pervert the course of justice.

Michael Donovan, 39, has been charged with abducting Shannon, who was found safe on 14 March, 24 days after she went missing.

Mr Donovan, of Lidgate Gardens, Dewsbury, who was formerly known as Paul Drake, is the uncle of Shannon's stepfather Craig Meehan."
 

[Rod Paradise]

I said about 3 weeks ago that the whole Shannon Mathews story was starting to resemble a bad episode of Shameless - wish I was as accurate at picking horses.

[mondatoo]

yeah!..Legalise the sex!

Piss of German - you know how the laws over there work - between similar ages is OK, thus not criminalising the kids doing what comes naturally.

MrsB says sex is illegal in the UK!

 

[77dave]

I took Woodley and Lloydy to Hoover Dam yesterday  we stopped off at Boulder City Train station

They dont do trains

[tikay]

I took Woodley and Lloydy to Hoover Dam yesterday  we stopped off at Boulder City Train station

They dont do trains

drool.......!

The railroad was built especially to convey materials to the Hoover Dam Construction, I believe. They do things in style over there Jim. Tell Woodley & Lloydy I ain't even slightly jealous. And tell Woodley to fix his hair.