Vegas & The Aftermath - Diary

[MANTIS01]

I must apologise to Geo...because I am one of those people who found the Giles e-mail firework display funny. Actually I thought it was hilarious. The bmx example Andrew gave was spot on because the guy is an artist, and has created a work. The correction of his work is to brand him sloppy and to show a deep ignorance to both the written word and the writer himself. That's a pretty big insult. And ironically very sloppy. It would be like me taking Cristiano Ronaldo aside and teaching him how to dribble. He would probably tell me to feck off....and to be fair he would have a very good point.

His e-mail is excellent on many levels. As a writer his pen is his sword and he wields it to great effect. Look at the power he has when he skillfully strings a few choice words together. Oh how clever to use swear words you may say. But actually it is clever. They are colours on his pallet and he is at liberty to use them. If his intention was to communicate his fury and angst then he has accomplished that rather well I would say. And the fact that he sees himself communicating to uneducated peasants, the use of working-class language is sublime. Don't forget it's only words and you can interpret their meaning any way you want. The writer must have immense satisfaction in having the power to prompt the very reaction he wanted. There has been a lot of attention given to that very important 'a' now! You see, brilliant.

It's good to have fun with words, and there is no need to keep getting offended by stuff like this. People wanting to break his nose because of his words is ironic. It's like someone wanting to burn my house down because my stereo is on too loud. You may say that it is common courtesy to be polite, but it's common courtesy not to mess with a man's work imo.

The response from the editor was pretty witty I thought.

[tikay]

In reply to MANTIS, on the subject of "those" letters.

I do empathise with Geo, but for me, the sheer power that man was able to generate merely by using words, carefully chosen, was a beautiful example of how powerful words can be when used by those who have the ability to write well. Ditto, the reply, both got maximum marks for "shock & awe". I loved them both, for their cleverness, for their sheer power, &, as a bonus, note the little lessons on writing an article by Mr Coren. Can any poker "writer" hold a candle to either of them? I think not.

Bullying? Hmm, I'm not so sure it was bulllying. This was two heavyweight writers going at it hammer & tongs, a fair fight in fact. "Bullying" implies strong v weak, an uneven contest, & neither side were weak, both could look after themselves very nicely, thank you.

Rude? Yes, incredibly so - both of them. But this was in private, not in public. Surely, one-to-one, in private, we can take the cooey-wooey gloves off & say whatever we want? I resent - deeply resent - being attacked in that manner in public, on blogs & various media platforms, by spineless turds who dare not say it to my face. But in private, that's different, anything goes, because your opponent is not attention-seeking, or looking to garner sympathy from the watching crowd, he has to take you on, one-to-one, with no help from bystanders. So, the rudeness, in private, is fine.

Funny? Well, the Sub-Editors (two young ladies, if I'm not mistaken) set out to be humorous in their reply, & succeeded. We might not approve, but we have to accept the reply was funny - it was designed, intended, & written in that precise vein.

How it got into the public domain is another matter altogether, & I think that broke a lot of rules, & I do not approve.

And finally, MANTIS gets it right as to the right of Mr Coren to get arsey, given the circumstances. His skill is writing, & he does it beautifully, but not without effort, & agonising on getting it "just so". He was entitled to be cross, & critiscise the Subbie privately. I can't imagine for a second he planned for it to go public. That's key.

I've been thinking about this subject most of the day, & I am sorry if Geo takes offence at my, or other,views, & I do know why bullying is a sensitive area for him. But I just don't think it was bullying.

All for want of an "a", eh?

[tikay]

Last news I heard from the Luton £250 was that Celtic - aka "popeye" apparently - busted in 8th, (7 paid....) by Paul Garnham. A good effort by Vinni.

With 4 left, Paul is, or was, Chip Leader, according to Celtic's Text.

[MANTIS01]

Twas not bullying. It was this.....

[jakally]

The problem with fencing is that it often ends up creating barriers.....................

[Geo the Sarge]

I must apologise to Geo...because I am one of those people who found the Giles e-mail firework display funny. Actually I thought it was hilarious. The bmx example Andrew gave was spot on because the guy is an artist, and has created a work. The correction of his work is to brand him sloppy and to show a deep ignorance to both the written word and the writer himself. That's a pretty big insult. And ironically very sloppy. It would be like me taking Cristiano Ronaldo aside and teaching him how to dribble. He would probably tell me to feck off....and to be fair he would have a very good point.

His e-mail is excellent on many levels. As a writer his pen is his sword and he wields it to great effect. Look at the power he has when he skillfully strings a few choice words together. Oh how clever to use swear words you may say. But actually it is clever. They are colours on his pallet and he is at liberty to use them. If his intention was to communicate his fury and angst then he has accomplished that rather well I would say. And the fact that he sees himself communicating to uneducated peasants, the use of working-class language is sublime. Don't forget it's only words and you can interpret their meaning any way you want. The writer must have immense satisfaction in having the power to prompt the very reaction he wanted. There has been a lot of attention given to that very important 'a' now! You see, brilliant.

It's good to have fun with words, and there is no need to keep getting offended by stuff like this. People wanting to break his nose because of his words is ironic. It's like someone wanting to burn my house down because my stereo is on too loud. You may say that it is common courtesy to be polite, but it's common courtesy not to mess with a man's work imo.

The response from the editor was pretty witty I thought.

No need to apologise mate, we just see things very differently. At first I didn't, couldn't read it all as I found all the cursing so offensive and totally unneccessary (And anyone that knows me will certainly cofirm I am in no way prudish.) I've read through it a couple of times since and still do not find it funny. Even with him having explained the joke which I certainly wouldn't have got, after all I have never had the need to learn Yiddish.

Putting it that way, would it not be fair to say that the author is actually having a go at the sub editor due to his lack of knowledge on said language.

Bullying it certainly is. It screams "do not alter my work or you will be subject to even more of my bile!!"

Geo

[Geo the Sarge]

The problem with fencing is that it often ends up creating barriers.....................

Now that is funny

Geo

[tikay]

The Mandy/Nat Rothschild/Osborne affair continues to fascinate.

But note the repeated references to "oligarchs", which is one of those words that always produces awe. "Ooh, an oligarch".

I have only ever heard it used in reference to Russion zillionaires, which puzzled me, so I looked it up. "Oligarch" stems from a Greek work, & means "ruler of a community or faction" if I understand it correctly.

But that does not seem to be it's common usage.

Can anyone explain this? - why "oligarch" is only used for Russion zilionaires?

[MANTIS01]

The problem with fencing is that it often ends up creating barriers.....................

touche`

Posted by: Geo the Sarge

At first I didn't, couldn't read it all as I found all the cursing so offensive and totally unneccessary

Yeah, but do you see how this guy found the altering of his work so offensive and totally unnecessary. So really the cursing was obligitory to make his very loaded point.

Tikay said one of the clues was that the letter was private. This was a very good point. But another clue is how he signs off at the end.

Right,
Sorry to go on. Anger, real steaming fucking anger can make a man verbose.
All the best
Giles

If he had said something like "hope your family die of rabies" (which incidentally I get a lot of on-line) then this would mean his intention would be malicious. But to apologise, offer an explanation, and wish his colleagues good luck, shows his intentions are good. He is just delivering his message in the terms of a skilled writer. The sub-editors have already mis-interpreted the writer's words once. Let's start giving this guy a bit of credit and not make the same mistake again. If we get offended we fall into the same trap.

[Snatiramas]

The problem with going away is that you often miss lots of good stuff.........how did I miss all of this? A true professional in any field is just that, professional. The problem is a true professional may not be much of a person. The question for me is not whether the parties are heavyweight professionals or not. They can obviously both more than take care of themselves in a literary argument but what possible outcome can there be for either party by behaving like this in public.

Mr. Coren was obviously very upset and in my opinion with good reason. The way he delivered how he felt however, is totally unacceptable on any level and cannot be justified. Also having brought the issue into the public domain the sub editors have no choice but to defend themselves. If I were the Sunday Times I might have penned a letter that read as follows

Dear Giles

you are of course quite right about the changing of your copy and we apologise unreservedly for our error and any distress this may have caused you.

yours sincerely etc, etc.

I would then have called Mr. Coren into the office and fired him. Nobody and I do mean nobody should use the kind of language he used in describing other colleagues. They do after all have the same employer. There is no right in this sort of argument, both parties are wrong. I expect more adult behaviour from such well educated people...........mind you I expect more adult behaviour from Adam and Rachel and they are 13 and 9 respectively

[77dave]

After your reference to Mr Wolfe on Tom's diary here is the real Pulp Fiction

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mSvJwUFI_es&feature=related

[gatso]

"Oligarch" stems from a Greek work, & means "ruler of a community or faction" if I understand it correctly.

But that does not seem to be it's common usage.

Can anyone explain this? - why "oligarch" is only used for Russion zilionaires?

you have misunderstood. an oligarchy is a community, society, country, whatever ruled by a small group, usually the elite. an oligarch is one of that group of rulers.

the collapse of communism in the soviet union effectively led to the region being run by a select group of mega rich businessmen leaving russia and other ex soviet republics as effective oligarchies meaning that the zillionaires were oligarchs. there's was no change in meaning.

as the countries get rid of corruption these people will no doubt continue to be called oligarchs despite not having the power. that's the point at which the meaning of the word will change

[tikay]

This Post was made on the Sky Poker PTP thread......

none of my biz, just being nosey, was wondering if tikay could do this on blonde or is he only allowed to promote sky now? just seems a bit strange that if you wanna play tikay off the telly you can find him at luton, DTD or online at sky but not actually on his own site. or so it seems anyway, could be wrong obv

Such a complicated question, actually, though the straight answer is very easy. Yes, I have, could, & would do it on blonde.

But we need to go a bit deeper than that.

First, I've not replied on the Sky Poker PTP Thread, because I think that would be unfair, both on Sky Poker, & on Rich, who cut a deal with Sky to help promote Play The Presenter (PTP). It's a commercial deal, though only a small one, so I hope you understand why I don't want to get too heavy or personal on that thread.

blonde needs deals like that, as we don't generate enough revenue via our Cardroom. So, as you have already worked out, there is a bit of Catch-22 about all this!

More....

[tikay]

After your reference to Mr Wolfe on Tom's diary here is the real Pulp Fiction

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mSvJwUFI_es&feature=related

You Muppet!

[tikay]

"Oligarch" stems from a Greek work, & means "ruler of a community or faction" if I understand it correctly.

But that does not seem to be it's common usage.

Can anyone explain this? - why "oligarch" is only used for Russion zilionaires?

you have misunderstood. an oligarchy is a community, society, country, whatever ruled by a small group, usually the elite. an oligarch is one of that group of rulers.

the collapse of communism in the soviet union effectively led to the region being run by a select group of mega rich businessmen leaving russia and other ex soviet republics as effective oligarchies meaning that the zillionaires were oligarchs. there's was no change in meaning.

as the countries get rid of corruption these people will no doubt continue to be called oligarchs despite not having the power. that's the point at which the meaning of the word will change

But why, in my little world, do I only see it in relation to Russian millionaires?

Is Mugabe not an oligarch?