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Author Topic: Hand of the Week: September 17th  (Read 7860 times)
totalise
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« on: September 17, 2007, 10:05:40 AM »

Hi All,

The game is 5/10nl, and we are 8 handed, you dont have any of these players on your other tables. ALL comments appreciated.


Relevant Reads

UTG:   He got slowrolled about 15 hands previous by the button in this hand, and his actions so far afterwards indicate he is likely on tilt, making overbets, raising and re-raising, and generally splashing in pots chasing the long shots. Typically he is quite a good player, but has a short fuse, and has let the button know in great detail what his opinion of him is, via the chat box.

Stack: $1,140



Cutoff: Hes only been at the table for 20ish hands, and his stack has gone from the $1k buyin, down to about $890, up to $950 again, and he didn’t reload once. Hasn’t done anything out of line, so no real “reads” apart from the lack of reloading.

Stack: $950



Button : He luckboxed a gutshot on the river against UTG, and then slowrolled him, he has been playing quite bad, definitely a caller more then a raiser, passive and seemingly likes to gamble.

Stack: $2,400



SB: Hero, been playing quite standard, 3-betting quite religiously but you have been a lot more passive postflop with your draws then is typical.

Stack: $1,620




Onto the Action…

UTG bombs it up to $50, Cutoff calls, Button calls, Hero finds ...

What are the pros and cons of squeezing in this spot? Given that you know UTG is raising with a very wide range, and you suspect the others know it… is this a good spot to try and pick up the money in the pot?  Also, given the read above about the cutoff,  is it possible to make any inferences about his overplaying style/profitability? And finally, what do you do here, and why?

Action, you called, and BB folds.

Flop comes down three diamonds, and the action is on you:

Given the reads of your opponents, what is the play that you think will maximise your expectation in this particular spot? And why?

More to come on Wednesday
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doubleup
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« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2007, 03:30:10 PM »


Trouble with a squeeze here is that a pot sized bet might get an AI from utg or called by the button.  Anything bigger than this probably is a losing play as on its own as slightly tilty utg is going AI enough times to make it a losing play I think.

Nice flop.  I lead out with a 1.5 pot overbet, because I can't be sure of a c-bet from utg into 3 players or a bet anywhere else and if called I want to push turn.  Might not be the most profitable line, as a multiway pot might be possible and I am not going to be able to bluff another draw on the river, so interested in the thoughts of others.
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TightEnd
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« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2007, 03:36:48 PM »

I don't squeeze here as I think I get called by UTG, and I'm then OOP with a marginal hand. I'm happy to take a flop

From the basic description I would think the CO is a tight nut peddler type. Probable losing player at these levels

Hitting a monster pot, I can check raise and if called hope for a free river if I miss/check on the turn.

However given what I am playing against, a tilting UTG and a caller/ possible calling station on the button (who I cannot rely on to bet if checked to) and a cut off who also sounds passive I'm more likely to lead out with a pot sized bet, take the lead and prepare to commit if necessary.
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« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2007, 03:37:28 PM »

and I should add, you say you've been playing your draws passively, leading out here randomises your play, leading a strong draw multi way
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boldie
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« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2007, 05:56:01 AM »

I think a squeeze play here pre-flop is a mistake, as indeed your hand is marginal and you are very likely to get called.

On the flop..I lead out here for pot building purposes. I have a monster draw and am looking to get paid as much as possible. I want callers or someone to reraise me all-in here. If I get 2 callers I'll be a happy man. I like the overbet of the pot hereas it is not as scary as a 2/3 size pot bet.
Bet about 1.5 times the pot and  call if someone reraises you.
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AlexMartin
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« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2007, 03:44:44 PM »

Squeezing into 2+ steamer with this marginal hand isnt my cup of tea. Calling is fine for cheap flop.

On the flop i want to combine the strength of my hand with a huge amount of fold equity in this spot. GTD this flop has hit a lot of hands, combine this with a the effect a steamer is having on the table and im going to gamble and pray for a bet from utg. You have been passive with your drawing hands so observant oppo's will likely think you have it made, ie 910 or 333. And im c/r all-in here, after a pot sized bet you have to shut down the action here in order to maximise your ev.

Against AA no hrt ur 56%
Against A10 ur 68%
V 99 ur 42%

After you look at the pot odds you wouldnt even fold this if you knew oppo had 99 AFTER he bets.

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madasahatstand
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« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2007, 07:48:01 PM »

UTG bombs it up to $50, Cutoff calls, Button calls, Hero finds   ...

What are the pros and cons of squeezing in this spot? Given that you know UTG is raising with a very wide range, and you suspect the others know it… is this a good spot to try and pick up the money in the pot?  Also, given the read above about the cutoff,  is it possible to make any inferences about his overplaying style/profitability? And finally, what do you do here, and why?

The squeeze is not a move that I’m making with this hand on this table. The con for me is that someone might go over the top of me and I’m most likely to be folding so why risk my chips in the first place if I’m not willing to follow it up with a call? So I’m calling this and hoping for a good flop.

I’m taking a risk management approach to my play so;
Squeezing = high risk of losing chips/low gain -winning what’s in the pot already
Calling = low risk of losing chips/potential high gain if I catch the flop


Action, you called, and BB folds.

Flop comes down    , and the action is on you:

Given the reads of your opponents, what is the play that you think will maximise your expectation in this particular spot? And why?

This is a lovely flop for me but I’m still thinking I don’t have a made hand although I have a huge selection of cards I could hit. I’m liking this position.
I’m going to take a risk management approach here also;

Checking = Low risk of losing chips/ high gain if I hit the turn – I’m thinking about the possibility I don’t hit my cards at all. There are still plenty of cards in the pack so potentially I won’t hit so I got to decide whether or not I’m going to call a big Raise or an all in? If someone puts me all in here I’m likely to call anyway so the advantage is that I allow other people to enter the pot to maximize it. I’m playing my passive flop way here so its likely one of the players is going to do a raise either because they have a made hand or because they are trying to steal. Either way I think this sounds like a sensible move.

Betting = potential high risk of losing all my chips here as I’m likely to call a raise or an all in/ high potential to win a lot of chips too. My only issue with the bet here is that I might scare the other players off as I’m no longer playing my passive flop game. This reduces my overall potential to win a bigger pot.
On this occasion, I’m checking and finding out what the other players are going to do and make my next move accordingly.


Be gentle as this is only my 2nd attempt at this................................................Its great fun:)
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« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2007, 07:53:18 PM »

I think a squeeze play here pre-flop is a mistake, as indeed your hand is marginal and you are very likely to get called.

On the flop..I lead out here for pot building purposes. I have a monster draw and am looking to get paid as much as possible. I want callers or someone to reraise me all-in here. If I get 2 callers I'll be a happy man. I like the overbet of the pot hereas it is not as scary as a 2/3 size pot bet.
Bet about 1.5 times the pot and  call if someone reraises you.


dont you think its more likely that you won't build the pot as you have been playing the passive flop? If you want to hook them in, and it's clear you do, would checking not be the best move? You've made your mind up that you are putting your chips in so why put them off potentially?
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madasahatstand
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« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2007, 08:00:23 PM »

Squeezing into 2+ steamer with this marginal hand isnt my cup of tea. Calling is fine for cheap flop.

On the flop i want to combine the strength of my hand with a huge amount of fold equity in this spot. GTD this flop has hit a lot of hands, combine this with a the effect a steamer is having on the table and im going to gamble and pray for a bet from utg. You have been passive with your drawing hands so observant oppo's will likely think you have it made, ie 910 or 333. And im c/r all-in here, after a pot sized bet you have to shut down the action here in order to maximise your ev.

Against AA no hrt ur 56%
Against A10 ur 68%
V 99 ur 42%

After you look at the pot odds you wouldnt even fold this if you knew oppo had 99 AFTER he bets.



So are you wanting to take the pot down on this round of betting? For me the decision making here needs to involve what you want from the round and thats what you seem to be saying?
c/r all in = potential to kill the action and collect the pot with the raise or be called and not hit.
c/ call raise = keep the action open and hope I hit the turn. Even if I dont hit, I can keep the c/ r all in for the turn bet and keep building the pot. does this make sense? it does to me anyway............
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« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2007, 08:49:06 PM »

Don't like the squeeze play here vs 3, too much likelihood of a call from UTG and if called you're OOP. Once that flop comes down I check raise all in most of the time unless I really feel there will be no action behind me.
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boldie
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« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2007, 08:50:05 PM »

I think a squeeze play here pre-flop is a mistake, as indeed your hand is marginal and you are very likely to get called.

On the flop..I lead out here for pot building purposes. I have a monster draw and am looking to get paid as much as possible. I want callers or someone to reraise me all-in here. If I get 2 callers I'll be a happy man. I like the overbet of the pot hereas it is not as scary as a 2/3 size pot bet.
Bet about 1.5 times the pot and  call if someone reraises you.


dont you think its more likely that you won't build the pot as you have been playing the passive flop? If you want to hook them in, and it's clear you do, would checking not be the best move? You've made your mind up that you are putting your chips in so why put them off potentially?

Potentially yes, however I find most people who raise a pot pre-flop don't fold to a SB/BB betting out on the flop. They reraise more often than not and that's what I'm hoping for. Also leading out disguises my hand better, if I check call here any heart on the turn is likely to kill my action as a check-call screams flush draw to me (especially if you've been playing your draws passively).

 I want to get as much into the pot as possible and I think if the other guy has a made hand (KK/AA?) he will re-raise me more often than not here..afterall; If I had the FD or straight draw I wouldn't bet out as I've been playing all my draws passively...so I'm much more likely to have a pair  (which he is likely to beat if he has a made hand).


 Also button called and according to our description is a calling station which helps as he might actually take a shot at this and call if we lead out anyways. If we get flatcalled by 2 or more players (instead of the reraise which is what we're really hoping for) we re-asses on the turn.  

p.s. I'm not rooting for a heart to come down in this situation..I would MUCH rather hit a black King to make my straight here. I'd still have the nuts and for some reason people notice a flush much easier than they notice a straight.
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AlexMartin
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« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2007, 09:49:54 PM »

Quote from: [url=http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=1198
Alex[/url] Martin link=topic=27421.msg557213#msg557213 date=1190126684]
Squeezing into 2+ steamer with this marginal hand isnt my cup of tea. Calling is fine for cheap flop.

On the flop i want to combine the strength of my hand with a huge amount of fold equity in this spot. GTD this flop has hit a lot of hands, combine this with a the effect a steamer is having on the table and im going to gamble and pray for a bet from utg. You have been passive with your drawing hands so observant oppo's will likely think you have it made, ie 910 or 333. And im c/r all-in here, after a pot sized bet you have to shut down the action here in order to maximise your ev.

Against AA no hrt ur 56%
Against A10 ur 68%
V 99 ur 42%

After you look at the pot odds you wouldnt even fold this if you knew oppo had 99 AFTER he bets.



So are you wanting to take the pot down on this round of betting? For me the decision making here needs to involve what you want from the round and thats what you seem to be saying?
c/r all in = potential to kill the action and collect the pot with the raise or be called and not hit.
c/ call raise = keep the action open and hope I hit the turn. Even if I dont hit, I can keep the c/ r all in for the turn bet and keep building the pot. does this make sense? it does to me anyway............

I want to get all my money in the middle now, im not fussed if i get a caller or not.
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totalise
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« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2007, 09:56:11 PM »

Quote from: [url=http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=1198
Alex[/url] Martin link=topic=27421.msg557213#msg557213 date=1190126684]
Squeezing into 2+ steamer with this marginal hand isnt my cup of tea. Calling is fine for cheap flop.

On the flop i want to combine the strength of my hand with a huge amount of fold equity in this spot. GTD this flop has hit a lot of hands, combine this with a the effect a steamer is having on the table and im going to gamble and pray for a bet from utg. You have been passive with your drawing hands so observant oppo's will likely think you have it made, ie 910 or 333. And im c/r all-in here, after a pot sized bet you have to shut down the action here in order to maximise your ev.

Against AA no hrt ur 56%
Against A10 ur 68%
V 99 ur 42%

After you look at the pot odds you wouldnt even fold this if you knew oppo had 99 AFTER he bets.



So are you wanting to take the pot down on this round of betting? For me the decision making here needs to involve what you want from the round and thats what you seem to be saying?
c/r all in = potential to kill the action and collect the pot with the raise or be called and not hit.
c/ call raise = keep the action open and hope I hit the turn. Even if I dont hit, I can keep the c/ r all in for the turn bet and keep building the pot. does this make sense? it does to me anyway............

I want to get all my money in the middle now, im not fussed if i get a caller or not.


thats why i reckon its quite interesting, I Mean, its impossible to play the hand badly unless you open fold or check/fold, but I donno if getting it in now is the most profitable, given the makeup of the table,  and if it is, what manner is best to get it in..ie bet/calling or check/raising, or is it best to try and keep the pot multiway, getting extra equity from additional callers in the hand? etc etc

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AlexMartin
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« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2007, 10:04:21 PM »

I like the big cr as it has the best chance of taking the pot down on the flop uncontested and winning the free money, whilst also giving the pot a decent chance to swell from a utg c bet. I dont want this going multiway down later streets.
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madasahatstand
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« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2007, 10:48:40 PM »

I like the big cr as it has the best chance of taking the pot down on the flop uncontested and winning the free money, whilst also giving the pot a decent chance to swell from a utg c bet. I dont want this going multiway down later streets.

Yes I agree thats good play if you want to take the pot down on the flop. I would venture further though and just call a bet/raise and look to swell the pot further for the next stage of betting. Just a preference for me.
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