Vagueness and the Aftermath - A sporadic diary

[Colchester Kev]

Tom you made me aware (in my ignorance) that there are two (or possibly a lot more?) types of 'Gypsy', Irish Travellers and Romany Gypsies. I was wondering if there is any animosity or indeed fraternity (or indeed both) between the two races (if that's the right word).

That is something I wondered too, Appleby for instance, are there more Irish travellers than Romany Gypsies that go there these days. ??

[RED-DOG]

Tom you made me aware (in my ignorance) that there are two (or possibly a lot more?) types of 'Gypsy', Irish Travellers and Romany Gypsies. I was wondering if there is any animosity or indeed fraternity (or indeed both) between the two races (if that's the right word).

That is something I wondered too, Appleby for instance, are there more Irish travellers than Romany Gypsies that go there these days. ??

More Gypsies. Years ago the margin was huge, but it's much smaller now.

[sovietsong]

Tom you made me aware (in my ignorance) that there are two (or possibly a lot more?) types of 'Gypsy', Irish Travellers and Romany Gypsies. I was wondering if there is any animosity or indeed fraternity (or indeed both) between the two races (if that's the right word).

Occasional animosity toward each other, but usually unity against everyone else.

In the program on the Gypsy families were having big trouble getting venues.  If the venue found out they were Gypsies they cancelled on them at very short notice.  There has been lots of talk about stereotypes etc and it is quite obvious to anybody that has a brain cell or two that not all Gypsies are violent and not all Gypsy events that happen will end up in a ruck but i would be interested to know what your thoughts on this are.  

Near where I grew up there is a cemetery, and all the pubs around the area would close, even on Friday nights, when there was a Gypsy funeral.  It was unreal, I could never understand it but the landlords said it wasn't worth the trouble.  This even now doesn't really add up, the funeral would happen a good mile away from the pubs that closed and the cemetery had a pub nearby where most events would happen and I have it on good authority that the Gypsies put a good chunk of money behind the bar as well as a deposit that was only charged to the Gypsy people due to the bad reputation (only found this out later in life).

I have jumped about ab it in this post so apologies if it is a little confusing to read, I guess I am just wondering what your thoughts on this are and if you have been to such events where trouble has occurred.  I can say that I have been to many weddings and funerals and have never seen any type of trouble, is this largely the same in your experience.

[RED-DOG]

There is about as much chance of a fight at a Gypsy wedding as there is at a Gorger wedding, i.e. fair to good.

It's very rare that there is a fight at a funeral, but often a large group of the men will decide to make a night of it and go on elsewhere after the funeral tea, then, (just like any other group who have had too much drink), there might be a fight.

The difference is, even when they're just socialising, Gypsies are loud and boisterous. To onlookers, it can be intimidating. They always look as if they are about to fight.

If you were to watch two Gypsies having a deal, you would swear they were having a row, and all the others would be crowding around, egging then on

"Go on Joe, tell him again"

"Goooo Onnn lads, get to it"

"Fuck me John, you're as hard as a stone you are"

"Try him try him, don't break my word"

"If he bids you a hundred more, will you ask him a hundred less?

"Hold your hand out Joe, make it lucky to him......"

Hands come together. SMACK! and the deal is done.

"Hooray!" (Everyone loves to see a deal)


5 mins later...


"Joe.. how much profit do you want on it Joe?"

"Gooo Onnn Dan, try him"

"Tell him again Dan....."

[sovietsong]

There is about as much chance of a fight at a Gypsy wedding as there is at a Gorger wedding, i.e. fair to good.

I would probably disagree that a fight is likely to happen at a "Gorger" wedding, I'm from an area full of colourful characters many of whom have been known to get involve in the odd punch up but I've never seen this occur at a wedding.

I'm sure many have happend but just wanted to know what your experience was as its just not something that has come up in mine.

[RED-DOG]

There is about as much chance of a fight at a Gypsy wedding as there is at a Gorger wedding, i.e. fair to good.

I would probably disagree that a fight is likely to happen at a "Gorger" wedding, I'm from an area full of colourful characters many of whom have been known to get involve in the odd punch up but I've never seen this occur at a wedding.

I'm sure many have happend but just wanted to know what your experience was as its just not something that has come up in mine.

You're probably right, I haven't attended many Gorger weddings (Fights at weddings are usually good natured affairs though)

[technolog]

Sorry for the cross-examination Tom. Is the camp at Bagworth (known to the locals as 'Costalot') a Gypsy or Traveller camp? I know one of the fellas from there. He used to play poker down the pub - good lad and really, REALLY funny. He has the Irish-sounding accent so I imagine they're travellers, yes?

[RED-DOG]

Sorry for the cross-examination Tom. Is the camp at Bagworth (known to the locals as 'Costalot') a Gypsy or Traveller camp? I know one of the fellas from there. He used to play poker down the pub - good lad and really, REALLY funny. He has the Irish-sounding accent so I imagine they're travellers, yes?

Costalot site consists of separate, privately owned, self contained plots. some are Travellers, Some are Gypsies.

[technolog]

One more then I'm done!

You've often referred to your many years spent in Yorkshire and, reading between the lines, you seem to hanker after those days. I hope you don't think I'm being too 'nosey' when I ask how you came to find yourself ensconced in l'il ole Leicestershire?

[RED-DOG]

remember the leaky shower? it started leaking again. I couldn't stop it. I have a theory that the seat for the O ring was flawed.

Anyway, after all that palaver, I had to buy a complete new one, and it was a swine to fit. FML

Click to see full-size image.

[Laxie]

I'm not sure if I've mentioned it before, but every New Year's Eve when our children were younger, we would hang out with 5 or 6 other families.  We played card games and dance around the house with the kids, lit fireworks at midnight and then carried on with the dancing and sing song until all hours.  

7 years ago we decided to do something different as the kids were getting a bit older.  The youngest of the lot was our daughter, Sarah.  She was 5.  The oldest of the lot was 16 and between the few families, there were 14 kids.  They were bored of the usual gathering, so that year we decided to book into a Killarney hotel for New Year's Eve.  It was a pretty good package deal with dinner & drinks, NYE entertainment and accommodation.  

Excitement around the place built until the big day.  Sounds silly, but it WAS a big deal to all of the kids.  Killarney is only 25 minutes from where we live, but it was an entirely different world to them at the time.  

When we arrived at the hotel we were met by the manager.  He was all apologies and had some 'concerns' he needed to discuss with us.  Unknown to him until a couple of hours earlier, a large group of Irish Travellers had booked in with the help of someone from the 'settled' community.  As it was clear to him we were not part of their group, we had two options.  First option - we could stay on and all would receive room upgrades and extra drink at no extra charge.   Second option - we could cancel without penalty and take him up on the same upgrade and packaged deal at a later date.  Well, how can it be the same NYE package on any other night besides NYE?  Without hesitation, we gave in our drinks order (obviously...lol) and took our room upgrades.  Each family was given 2 side by side suites.  One for the children and one for their parents.  Result!  

After dropping our things in our rooms, we all headed down to the party.  Tucked into one corner was a table of 10 Yanks.  Not sure if they were offered the same deal, as we barely spoke to them on the night.  Nope, not us.  We were going to have fun and make the most of the night.  We were going to hang with the Travellers, as ya would do.  lol  

First we needed to size up the situation.  Each group had tables reserved, so we made our way to our own.  Children sat at one, and adults at the other.  On the way, we noticed all the men and women were sat at separate tables.  We couldn't get over it.  The kids were amazed.  "Don't they like their husbands and wives mommy?"  "Don't know what that's about, pet, but they're all smiling so I'm sure it's grand."

After the meal, the band got going.  The usual rock and roll stuff.  Everyone was dancing but kind of keeping to themselves.  That went on for about an hour, but after a short break, the band broke in to Irish jigs and reels.  Our 5 year old, Sarah, was taking Irish dance classes at the time and she loved it.  Her eyes lit up the minute the music started.  She's not shy, so I said, "Off you go chicka."  And off she went...for at least 30 minutes.  The only one dancing, with a huge group of people circled around cheering her on.  Us and the Travellers.  Meanwhile, the Yank's cameras were flashing mad...but from a distance.  lol  When they finished the last of the Irish music and got back to the usual rock and roll stuff, we all mixed and danced as if there was no difference among us and had a blast!  All thanks to a wee 5 year old who brought the lot together.

We sent the kids packing to bed around 2:30 or 3:00 am and were asked to head to the resident's bar not long after that.  Without the kids and the music, it was back to our separate corners.  Sigh.  Ah well.  Was a great night anyway.  About an hour later, we noticed it getting kind of heated in their corner.  Two of the Lads were definitely not in agreement over something.  In fairness, the rest of their group was trying to calm the Lads down, but no joy.  A table or two went flying, our table of drinks went flying when one of them landed on it and basically it looked like all hell had broke loose.  Thing is, it was really only the two Lads and all the rest were just messy in their attempts to calm them.  Guards were called and the female Travellers were being told to gather their children from upstairs as they wouldn't be permitted to stay the night now.  Sigh.  

The manager came over to us all apologies and got staff to bring another round of drinks on the house.  As the drinks were being delivered he said, "Now then, ye wouldn't mind being witnesses when the guards arrive?"  

"Witnesses to what?" says I.  

"But you saw them.  They've wrecked the place...the whole lot of them!"  

"Well, no, that's not how I saw it.  Yes the two Lads had a row, but the rest weren't trying to egg them on, they were trying to stop them fighting.  I've no notion of tarring the lot with the one brush and I think it's shocking that you expect them to drag sleeping children from their beds over two drunken men...which YOUR hotel had no trouble serving all night."

With that, the rest of our group piped up with the same version as myself, so he apologised again and said he'd have to ask more of his staff if they agreed with our assessment of the situation before speaking to the guards.  You do that.  20 minutes later, another round of drinks landed at our table and one of the couples from the Traveller group landed right after.  They had bought the drinks for us.  All but the two men were being left stay.  Apparently, they'd been made pay a sizeable deposit when they checked in, so the manager was to take for damages from that and no charges were being brought against the lads who fought.  They were being taken to the garda station to sleep it off and would be released in the morning.  The Travellers just wanted to thank us for standing by them as not many people usually do.  Our pleasure and we had a great night with ye.

I used to tend bar.  God knows I still hang out in them even if I'm on the other side of the counter now.  Through the years, I've lost count of the number of drunken fights I've seen, but that was the only one involving Travellers.  As far as I'm concerned, it's drink is the problem, not where you call home.

[EvilPie]

remember the leaky shower? it started leaking again. I couldn't stop it. I have a theory that the seat for the O ring was flawed.

Anyway, after all that palaver, I had to buy a complete new one, and it was a swine to fit. FML

Click to see full-size image.

Please tell me you bought the one with the o-ring that had the unfortunate escaping incident......

Poetic justice.

[technolog]

I'm not sure if I've mentioned it before, but every New Year's Eve when our children were younger, we would hang out with 5 or 6 other families.  We played card games and dance around the house with the kids, lit fireworks at midnight and then carried on with the dancing and sing song until all hours. 

7 years ago we decided to do something different as the kids were getting a bit older.  The youngest of the lot was our daughter, Sarah.  She was 5.  The oldest of the lot was 16 and between the few families, there were 14 kids.  They were bored of the usual gathering, so that year we decided to book into a Killarney hotel for New Year's Eve.  It was a pretty good package deal with dinner & drinks, NYE entertainment and accommodation.   

Excitement around the place built until the big day.  Sounds silly, but it WAS a big deal to all of the kids.  Killarney is only 25 minutes from where we live, but it was an entirely different world to them at the time. 

When we arrived at the hotel we were met by the manager.  He was all apologies and had some 'concerns' he needed to discuss with us.  Unknown to him until a couple of hours earlier, a large group of Irish Travellers had booked in with the help of someone from the 'settled' community.  As it was clear to him we were not part of their group, we had two options.  First option - we could stay on and all would receive room upgrades and extra drink at no extra charge.   Second option - we could cancel without penalty and take him up on the same upgrade and packaged deal at a later date.  Well, how can it be the same NYE package on any other night besides NYE?  Without hesitation, we gave in our drinks order (obviously...lol) and took our room upgrades.  Each family was given 2 side by side suites.  One for the children and one for their parents.  Result! 

After dropping our things in our rooms, we all headed down to the party.  Tucked into one corner was a table of 10 Yanks.  Not sure if they were offered the same deal, as we barely spoke to them on the night.  Nope, not us.  We were going to have fun and make the most of the night.  We were going to hang with the Travellers, as ya would do.  lol 

First we needed to size up the situation.  Each group had tables reserved, so we made our way to our own.  Children sat at one, and adults at the other.  On the way, we noticed all the men and women were sat at separate tables.  We couldn't get over it.  The kids were amazed.  "Don't they like their husbands and wives mommy?"  "Don't know what that's about, pet, but they're all smiling so I'm sure it's grand."

After the meal, the band got going.  The usual rock and roll stuff.  Everyone was dancing but kind of keeping to themselves.  That went on for about an hour, but after a short break, the band broke in to Irish jigs and reels.  Our 5 year old, Sarah, was taking Irish dance classes at the time and she loved it.  Her eyes lit up the minute the music started.  She's not shy, so I said, "Off you go chicka."  And off she went...for at least 30 minutes.  The only one dancing, with a huge group of people circled around cheering her on.  Us and the Travellers.  Meanwhile, the Yank's cameras were flashing mad...but from a distance.  lol  When they finished the last of the Irish music and got back to the usual rock and roll stuff, we all mixed and danced as if there was no difference among us and had a blast!  All thanks to a wee 5 year old who brought the lot together.

We sent the kids packing to bed around 2:30 or 3:00 am and were asked to head to the resident's bar not long after that.  Without the kids and the music, it was back to our separate corners.  Sigh.  Ah well.  Was a great night anyway.  About an hour later, we noticed it getting kind of heated in their corner.  Two of the Lads were definitely not in agreement over something.  In fairness, the rest of their group was trying to calm the Lads down, but no joy.  A table or two went flying, our table of drinks went flying when one of them landed on it and basically it looked like all hell had broke loose.  Thing is, it was really only the two Lads and all the rest were just messy in their attempts to calm them.  Guards were called and the female Travellers were being told to gather their children from upstairs as they wouldn't be permitted to stay the night now.  Sigh. 

The manager came over to us all apologies and got staff to bring another round of drinks on the house.  As the drinks were being delivered he said, "Now then, ye wouldn't mind being witnesses when the guards arrive?" 

"Witnesses to what?" says I. 

"But you saw them.  They've wrecked the place...the whole lot of them!" 

"Well, no, that's not how I saw it.  Yes the two Lads had a row, but the rest weren't trying to egg them on, they were trying to stop them fighting.  I've no notion of tarring the lot with the one brush and I think it's shocking that you expect them to drag sleeping children from their beds over two drunken men...which YOUR hotel had no trouble serving all night."

With that, the rest of our group piped up with the same version as myself, so he apologised again and said he'd have to ask more of his staff if they agreed with our assessment of the situation before speaking to the guards.  You do that.  20 minutes later, another round of drinks landed at our table and one of the couples from the Traveller group landed right after.  They had bought the drinks for us.  All but the two men were being left stay.  Apparently, they'd been made pay a sizeable deposit when they checked in, so the manager was to take for damages from that and no charges were being brought against the lads who fought.  They were being taken to the garda station to sleep it off and would be released in the morning.  The Travellers just wanted to thank us for standing by them as not many people usually do.  Our pleasure and we had a great night with ye.

I used to tend bar.  God knows I still hang out in them even if I'm on the other side of the counter now.  Through the years, I've lost count of the number of drunken fights I've seen, but that was the only one involving Travellers.  As far as I'm concerned, it's drink is the problem, not where you call home.

Thinly veiled 'Laxie's family starts a fight' brag post

[RED-DOG]

One more then I'm done!

You've often referred to your many years spent in Yorkshire and, reading between the lines, you seem to hanker after those days. I hope you don't think I'm being too 'nosey' when I ask how you came to find yourself ensconced in l'il ole Leicestershire?

Just serendipity really. I was looking to buy a piece of land to live on, after a couple of failed attempts I found a likely looking spot in Staveley (Derbyshire) I approached the local authorities to ask about getting planning permission and they said the chances were good. then the locals got wind of it and 800 of them protested. that was the end of that.

I decided that next time, I would move on first, and then ask for permission.

One day, I stumbled upon this place, bought it, and eventually moved on.

I've told the story on this thread. It starts here. It's in several parts, so you have to scroll through a bit of waffle.


http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=30601.msg641269#msg641269

 

[RED-DOG]

I'm not sure if I've mentioned it before, but every New Year's Eve when our children were younger, we would hang out with 5 or 6 other families.  We played card games and dance around the house with the kids, lit fireworks at midnight and then carried on with the dancing and sing song until all hours.  

7 years ago we decided to do something different as the kids were getting a bit older.  The youngest of the lot was our daughter, Sarah.  She was 5.  The oldest of the lot was 16 and between the few families, there were 14 kids.  They were bored of the usual gathering, so that year we decided to book into a Killarney hotel for New Year's Eve.  It was a pretty good package deal with dinner & drinks, NYE entertainment and accommodation.  

Excitement around the place built until the big day.  Sounds silly, but it WAS a big deal to all of the kids.  Killarney is only 25 minutes from where we live, but it was an entirely different world to them at the time.  

When we arrived at the hotel we were met by the manager.  He was all apologies and had some 'concerns' he needed to discuss with us.  Unknown to him until a couple of hours earlier, a large group of Irish Travellers had booked in with the help of someone from the 'settled' community.  As it was clear to him we were not part of their group, we had two options.  First option - we could stay on and all would receive room upgrades and extra drink at no extra charge.   Second option - we could cancel without penalty and take him up on the same upgrade and packaged deal at a later date.  Well, how can it be the same NYE package on any other night besides NYE?  Without hesitation, we gave in our drinks order (obviously...lol) and took our room upgrades.  Each family was given 2 side by side suites.  One for the children and one for their parents.  Result!  

After dropping our things in our rooms, we all headed down to the party.  Tucked into one corner was a table of 10 Yanks.  Not sure if they were offered the same deal, as we barely spoke to them on the night.  Nope, not us.  We were going to have fun and make the most of the night.  We were going to hang with the Travellers, as ya would do.  lol  

First we needed to size up the situation.  Each group had tables reserved, so we made our way to our own.  Children sat at one, and adults at the other.  On the way, we noticed all the men and women were sat at separate tables.  We couldn't get over it.  The kids were amazed.  "Don't they like their husbands and wives mommy?"  "Don't know what that's about, pet, but they're all smiling so I'm sure it's grand."

After the meal, the band got going.  The usual rock and roll stuff.  Everyone was dancing but kind of keeping to themselves.  That went on for about an hour, but after a short break, the band broke in to Irish jigs and reels.  Our 5 year old, Sarah, was taking Irish dance classes at the time and she loved it.  Her eyes lit up the minute the music started.  She's not shy, so I said, "Off you go chicka."  And off she went...for at least 30 minutes.  The only one dancing, with a huge group of people circled around cheering her on.  Us and the Travellers.  Meanwhile, the Yank's cameras were flashing mad...but from a distance.  lol  When they finished the last of the Irish music and got back to the usual rock and roll stuff, we all mixed and danced as if there was no difference among us and had a blast!  All thanks to a wee 5 year old who brought the lot together.

We sent the kids packing to bed around 2:30 or 3:00 am and were asked to head to the resident's bar not long after that.  Without the kids and the music, it was back to our separate corners.  Sigh.  Ah well.  Was a great night anyway.  About an hour later, we noticed it getting kind of heated in their corner.  Two of the Lads were definitely not in agreement over something.  In fairness, the rest of their group was trying to calm the Lads down, but no joy.  A table or two went flying, our table of drinks went flying when one of them landed on it and basically it looked like all hell had broke loose.  Thing is, it was really only the two Lads and all the rest were just messy in their attempts to calm them.  Guards were called and the female Travellers were being told to gather their children from upstairs as they wouldn't be permitted to stay the night now.  Sigh.  

The manager came over to us all apologies and got staff to bring another round of drinks on the house.  As the drinks were being delivered he said, "Now then, ye wouldn't mind being witnesses when the guards arrive?"  

"Witnesses to what?" says I.  

"But you saw them.  They've wrecked the place...the whole lot of them!"  

"Well, no, that's not how I saw it.  Yes the two Lads had a row, but the rest weren't trying to egg them on, they were trying to stop them fighting.  I've no notion of tarring the lot with the one brush and I think it's shocking that you expect them to drag sleeping children from their beds over two drunken men...which YOUR hotel had no trouble serving all night."

With that, the rest of our group piped up with the same version as myself, so he apologised again and said he'd have to ask more of his staff if they agreed with our assessment of the situation before speaking to the guards.  You do that.  20 minutes later, another round of drinks landed at our table and one of the couples from the Traveller group landed right after.  They had bought the drinks for us.  All but the two men were being left stay.  Apparently, they'd been made pay a sizeable deposit when they checked in, so the manager was to take for damages from that and no charges were being brought against the lads who fought.  They were being taken to the garda station to sleep it off and would be released in the morning.  The Travellers just wanted to thank us for standing by them as not many people usually do.  Our pleasure and we had a great night with ye.

I used to tend bar.  God knows I still hang out in them even if I'm on the other side of the counter now.  Through the years, I've lost count of the number of drunken fights I've seen, but that was the only one involving Travellers.  As far as I'm concerned, it's drink is the problem, not where you call home.

That's a great story. thank you for telling it.

Nine times out of ten everyone would have been thrown out, and this would have ended up in the local paper "GYPSIES ARRESTED AFTER DRUNKEN RAMPAGE"