Vagueness and the Aftermath - A sporadic diary

[GreekStein]

That's argument for the sake of it Kin.

Surely not Kinboshi!?

[RED-DOG]

Cocker spaniel


Show strain





Working strain





Show strain





Working strain

[Claw75]

I'm not a dog lover and don't know much about them, but I can't see why the show strain cocker spaniel is considered to be more aesthetically pleasing that the working strain - to me as a layperson the working strain is the much more attractive animal to look at.

[RED-DOG]

I'm not a dog lover and don't know much about them, but I can't see why the show strain cocker spaniel is considered to be more aesthetically pleasing that the working strain - to me as a layperson the working strain is the much more attractive animal to look at.

I agree Claire, but when I said aesthetics, I didn't mean that the show dogs look better that the working dogs, I just meant that show dogs are bred for, and judged upon the way they look.

Whether they be better or worse to look at than working dogs is just a matter of opinion.

They won't be as healthy, robust, happy or mentally stable as working dogs, and that is a matter of fact.

[Rod Paradise]

I'm not a dog lover and don't know much about them, but I can't see why the show strain cocker spaniel is considered to be more aesthetically pleasing that the working strain - to me as a layperson the working strain is the much more attractive animal to look at.

I agree Claire, but when I said aesthetics, I didn't mean that the show dogs look better that the working dogs, I just meant that show dogs are bred for, and judged upon the way they look.

Whether they be better or worse to look at than working dogs is just a matter of opinion.

They won't be as healthy, robust, happy or mentally stable as working dogs, and that is a matter of fact.

Aye, it all comes down to how badly worded the 'standard' is and how desperate people are to breed dogs that conform to it. The Alsatian is a great example of a working dog with all use bred out of it.

I'm sure I put up pics in Tikay's diary thread when we got into the KC - but a quick google will do - look at the Victorian Bulldog (which some breeders have bred back to) and compare it with the modern monstrosity.... there's only one winner IMHO.

[EvilPie]

I'm not a dog lover and don't know much about them, but I can't see why the show strain cocker spaniel is considered to be more aesthetically pleasing that the working strain - to me as a layperson the working strain is the much more attractive animal to look at.

I agree Claire, but when I said aesthetics, I didn't mean that the show dogs look better that the working dogs, I just meant that show dogs are bred for, and judged upon the way they look.

Whether they be better or worse to look at than working dogs is just a matter of opinion.

They won't be as healthy, robust, happy or mentally stable as working dogs, and that is a matter of fact.

Like Tom says some people in a committee have sat down and decided what they think a cocker spaniel should look like. Breeders who then want a champion dog have to get as close to that standard as possible.

The cocker spaniel breed standard is http://www.thecockerspanielclub.co.uk/breedstandard.htm

All other breeds have a set of standards and many breeders don't care about anything other than being as close to this as possible.

Many pups will be born who are clearly not to the standard and they will be given away, sold or even euthanised because a breeder doesn't want to waste time on them.

The working cocker spaniel that Tom has posted clearly doesn't fit the standard above so would never be a show dog. If it was born with a breeder who was only interested in shows who knows what his fate may have been?

There's been a lot of bad press towards the kennel club in recent years as they appear to some to be more interested in prizes and trophies rather than animal welfare.

[gatso]

tom, is this breeding for aesthetic values not somewhat similar to Gypsy horses? do they have health problems because of it or does it not work the same way with horses?

[kinboshi]

That's argument for the sake of it Kin.

Surely not Kinboshi!?

I'm not adverse to a discussion , but this time I wasn't just being argumentative - I agree with Tom's point on the whole, but was also suggesting that breeding dogs for some practical purposes can also ignore the health and well-being of the animal.

Breeding them just for aesthetics is often pure cruelty.

[StuartHopkin]

Breeding them just for aesthetics is often pure cruelty.

Its a shame Cos' parents didn't try a little bit though don't you think?

[kinboshi]

Rhodesian Ridgebacks.

I've heard that the ridge is actually a deformity, but interestingly the kennel club's definition of the breed doesn't mention that.  I do know that ones born without the ridge are perfectly healthy dogs, but are often 'disposed of' as puppies, because they don't match the 'design'.

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/36

It does mention

Faults
Any departure from the foregoing points should be considered a fault and the seriousness with which the fault should be regarded should be in exact proportion to its degree and its effect upon the health and welfare of the dog.

The fault is in the definition of the breed, not the departure from it.

[kinboshi]

Breeding them just for aesthetics is often pure cruelty.

Its a shame Cos' parents didn't try a little bit though don't you think?

rotflcopters

[dik9]

That working strain cocker spaniel is identical to my old dog "Whisky" it was allegedly a cross between a beagle and a labrador. I wish I could show you some pictures as to the similarity but it was a long long time ago lol

[Karabiner]

I decided to go on the bike.

Downside: The dreaded FNR.

Upside: I get to stop and admire the first snowdrops.

(Mid Feb, temp -2° How do they manage to bloom in conditions like these)

Click to see full-size image.

Just caught up with the last few pages as I've been darn the smoke, but this picture reminded me that on the way back on the train today I was amazed to see a few newborn lambs in the fields, despite the recent weather.

[Rod Paradise]

Breeding them just for aesthetics is often pure cruelty.

Its a shame Cos' parents didn't try a little bit though don't you think?

rotflcopters

Well done Stu!!!!

[Rod Paradise]

Rhodesian Ridgebacks.

I've heard that the ridge is actually a deformity, but interestingly the kennel club's definition of the breed doesn't mention that.  I do know that ones born without the ridge are perfectly healthy dogs, but are often 'disposed of' as puppies, because they don't match the 'design'.

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/36

It does mention

Faults
Any departure from the foregoing points should be considered a fault and the seriousness with which the fault should be regarded should be in exact proportion to its degree and its effect upon the health and welfare of the dog.

The fault is in the definition of the breed, not the departure from it.

I doubt it's a deformity Kin, settlers in South Africa bred their dogs with local dogs which had the ridge, seeking to take some of the qualities of the local hunting dogs while adding size to enable them to be used to hunt Lions the ones that kept those qualities best seemed to have ridges so everyone wanted a dog with a ridgge.

Culling of a dog for not meeting an aesthetic standard is criminal. We'd a dalmatian with a spot on her nose - the KC standard called for her to be culled - she was one of the brightest and most well behaved dogs we've ever had.

Since the embarrassment suffered by the KC after the BBC programme on the problems their standards were causing they've amended the standards to say no healthy puppy should be culled.