Vagueness and the Aftermath - A sporadic diary

[EvilPie]

I was walking my dog through Wollaton Park the other day and saw a couple walking their ferrets. I thought how strange it was and never realised that people actually walk them in the same way you would a dog.

From a distance I thought they were just really small terriers but it was obvious what they were up close. They had little leather harnesses on and looked really hard as they bounced along.

My poor dog was petrified!!

I'm looking forward to the rest of this story. Apart from the inevitable sad ending that your pet stories always seem to have. 

[RED-DOG]

I was walking my dog through Wollaton Park the other day and saw a couple walking their ferrets. I thought how strange it was and never realised that people actually walk them in the same way you would a dog.

From a distance I thought they were just really small terriers but it was obvious what they were up close. They had little leather harnesses on and looked really hard as they bounced along.

My poor dog was petrified!!

I'm looking forward to the rest of this story. Apart from the inevitable sad ending that your pet stories always seem to have. 

Oh dear...

[EvilPie]

I was walking my dog through Wollaton Park the other day and saw a couple walking their ferrets. I thought how strange it was and never realised that people actually walk them in the same way you would a dog.

From a distance I thought they were just really small terriers but it was obvious what they were up close. They had little leather harnesses on and looked really hard as they bounced along.

My poor dog was petrified!!

I'm looking forward to the rest of this story. Apart from the inevitable sad ending that your pet stories always seem to have. 

It's not another Rantor style happy ending then?

Mind you Rantor was someone else's dog so that explains that one. 
Oh dear...

[Dingdell]

I used to walk my cat on a lead through the woods and everything. If it met a dog it would jump on my shoulder and we'd walk past while my cat almost thumbed at the confused and slavering dog. The cat was called Polly and she did her parrott impression well.

PS I'm a lot better now....

[sovietsong]

When will we see the next installment!

[RED-DOG]

A conversation with Tony, and subsequent posts on his diary have made me feel that I have to fess up here.

I don't have a thing about asking for directions.

In fact, I have absolutely no problem with asking anyone for anything. Don't get me wrong, I won't be rude, but the whole talking to strangers or asking for help thing doesn't bother me at all.

I'll try to explain what I mean, but I'm not sure I will be able to put it across very well. It's far too intricate to cover in a few paragraphs, and I wont be at all surprised if you haven't a clue what I'm talking about.

I don't have trouble asking for a discount, and I'm not the slightest bit embarrassed to ask for instruction, advice, food, services or goods. As long as it's done in a propper manner, it should not be embarrassing for either party.

I have spent half my life confronting complete strangers and trying to buy or beg something from them, or to sell something to them and I can tell you right now, if you make them feel in any way embarrassed, your cause is lost. 

Everything is changing now, but in the old days this was part of the reason why Gypsy children went to work while they were really young. Young children are not nearly so prone to embarrassment as they might become as adults.

The Gypsy word for embarrass is "Ladge" and the rules about what is or is not "Ladging" for us is often very different from the rest of society.

For instance, among Gypsies any reference to the sex act. genitalia, menstruation etc in mixed company would be ladging in the extreme. If say we are watching TV together, someone always keeps a hand on the remote controll in case one of those Tampax or Durex adverts comes on. If one does, the channel will be changed for a few seconds, no one will comment, everyone knows what's what.

If the mixed company includes Gorgers (Non Gypsies) and they make reference to a 'delicate' subject, the Gypsies will usually roll their eyes at each other and on the premise that the offender knows no better, let it pass.

If Mrs Red were talking to other Gypsy women, or even if the girls were conversing among themselves, even though I am in earshot, there are strict rules about what aspects of the conversation I can add to or comment upon, The same would apply to her if I were talking to the men.

If I were to offer an opinion (in mixed company, in public) on something that is considered to fall under the jurisdiction of the women, or she was to interfere with the business of the men, it would be incredibly ladging for all concerned. Of course, in private she would be perfectly entitled to offer any opinion she wished, and vice verca.


By the same token, lots of the things that the rest of society would find embarrassing, wouldn't "ladge" us at all.

We would think nothing of going into someones home, (Someone who you know) making yourself comfortable and saying "Make me a sandwich" or "That was nice, is there any more?" In fact, treating their home as if it were yours is a great compliment.

Also,there is absolutely nothing wrong with saying, "I like your coat/shoes/vase/bracelet/goldfinch/dog, can I have it?" "Go on, please give it to me, it would look better on me, I could look after it better than you" and so on.

I've never really thought about these things much before, it's so complex. The more I dwell on it, the more I realise that I can't really explain it properly to someone who doesn't understand it already.

[tikay]

A conversation with Tony, and subsequent posts on his diary have made me feel that I have to fess up here.

I don't have a thing about asking for directions.

In fact, I have absolutely no problem with asking anyone for anything. Don't get me wrong, I won't be rude, but the whole talking to strangers or asking for help thing doesn't bother me at all.

I'll try to explain what I mean, but I'm not sure I will be able to put it across very well. It's far too intricate to cover in a few paragraphs, and I wont be at all surprised if you haven't a clue what I'm talking about.

I don't have trouble asking for a discount, and I'm not the slightest bit embarrassed to ask for instruction, advice, food, services or goods. As long as it's done in a propper manner, it should not be embarrassing for either party.

I have spent half my life confronting complete strangers and trying to buy or beg something from them, or to sell something to them and I can tell you right now, if you make them feel in any way embarrassed, your cause is lost. 

Everything is changing now, but in the old days this was part of the reason why Gypsy children went to work while they were really young. Young children are not nearly so prone to embarrassment as they might become as adults.

The Gypsy word for embarrass is "Ladge" and the rules about what is or is not "Ladging" for us is often very different from the rest of society.

For instance, among Gypsies any reference to the sex act. genitalia, menstruation etc in mixed company would be ladging in the extreme. If say we are watching TV together, someone always keeps a hand on the remote controll in case one of those Tampax or Durex adverts comes on. If one does, the channel will be changed for a few seconds, no one will comment, everyone knows what's what.

If the mixed company includes Gorgers (Non Gypsies) and they make reference to a 'delicate' subject, the Gypsies will usually roll their eyes at each other and on the premise that the offender knows no better, let it pass.

If Mrs Red were talking to other Gypsy women, or even if the girls were conversing among themselves, even though I am in earshot, there are strict rules about what aspects of the conversation I can add to or comment upon, The same would apply to her if I were talking to the men.

If I were to offer an opinion (in mixed company, in public) on something that is considered to fall under the jurisdiction of the women, or she was to interfere with the business of the men, it would be incredibly ladging for all concerned. Of course, in private she would be perfectly entitled to offer any opinion she wished, and vice verca.


By the same token, lots of the things that the rest of society would find embarrassing, wouldn't "ladge" us at all.

We would think nothing of going into someones home, (Someone who you know) making yourself comfortable and saying "Make me a sandwich" or "That was nice, is there any more?" In fact, treating their home as if it were yours is a great compliment.

Also,there is absolutely nothing wrong with saying, "I like your coat/shoes/vase/bracelet/goldfinch/dog, can I have it?" "Go on, please give it to me, it would look better on me, I could look after it better than you" and so on.

I've never really thought about these things much before, it's so complex. The more I dwell on it, the more I realise that I can't really explain it properly to someone who doesn't understand it already.

That is very tellling Tom, &  little light has just gone on in my head!

I like to pop in & see Tom now & then, but when I ring up to see if it's OK to visit, I aways have to "edge towards" the question, "can I pop in?". Because for a Gorger, it's embarrassing to ask, & embarrassing to be told "no".

Next time, I'm gonna just say "Tom, get the kettle on, be there in 10". (But I bet I won't, it's just "not done" in my little world).

Fascinating insight there, Tom.

How was the Wedding? And Reception? And Party?.....

[RED-DOG]

Next time, I'm gonna just say "Tom, get the kettle on, be there in 10". (But I bet I won't, it's just "not done" in my little world).

it's embarrassing to ask, & embarrassing to be told "no".


Just to try to make things clear, it shouldn't be embarrassing for you to ask precisely because I wouldn't be embarrassed to say no if it was inconvenient.

[RED-DOG]

How was the Wedding? And Reception? And Party?


I enjoyed the food (Both sit down meal and buffet) I enjoyed sitting in the covered outdoor smoking area, watching the rain and renewing old acquaintances as they came out in small groups to smoke.

Then, about 7pm when the massive speakers boomed into life and conversation was no longer possible, I enjoyed sleeping in the car until home time.

[tikay]

Next time, I'm gonna just say "Tom, get the kettle on, be there in 10". (But I bet I won't, it's just "not done" in my little world).

it's embarrassing to ask, & embarrassing to be told "no".


Just to try to make things clear, it shouldn't be embarrassing for you to ask precisely because I wouldn't be embarrassed to say no if it was inconvenient.

Well, that's clearer, but the fact is Tom, we come from different societies, with different soclial etiquettes, & we do some things very different.

Fascinating, really, the way our minds work, & the psychology of all this.

[RED-DOG]

Next time, I'm gonna just say "Tom, get the kettle on, be there in 10". (But I bet I won't, it's just "not done" in my little world).

it's embarrassing to ask, & embarrassing to be told "no".


Just to try to make things clear, it shouldn't be embarrassing for you to ask precisely because I wouldn't be embarrassed to say no if it was inconvenient.

Well, that's clearer, but the fact is Tom, we come from different societies, with different soclial etiquettes, & we do some things very different.

That's true of course, but real friendship transcends social etiquette and other such trifles. We are each free to confront or forgive the other their transgressions without fear of consequence.

[MANTIS01]

I think it's a compliment to your disposition when friends feel comfortable enough in your house to make themselves feel completely at home.

[booder]

I have never had a problem asking for directions,in fact it was at times a neccessity whilst i was lorry driving as (pre-sat nav) a lot of maps did not provide adequate coverage of some of the outlying areas i was sometimes required to deliver too.
Many years ago,i had a load of Christmas trees destined for a farm (for onward distribution) in remote Wales.The weather was atrocious,thick driving snow making the reading of road signs impossible,and as it was getting late in the evening i attempted to contact the farm by phone for directions.Unfortunately i was in an area where there was "no network coverage".After half an hour of slowly driving up and down narrow lanes,i spied an elderly gent walking his dog.
"excuse me,could you give me directions to xxxx farm please"
Result !  he knew the farm and proceded to give me explicit instructions as to how to get to my destination approx 4 miles away.
I travelled the route descibed by him and after three miles i found the left hand turn he had indicated.
This road was single track,thick with snow and twisted and turned for over 2 miles until i came to the end of it....a gate leading into a field!
I am not sure how many of you have driven articulated lorries,but reversing back down that lane in those conditions was one of the hardest driving jobs i have ever encountered,taking in excess of 2 hours.
I am pretty sure that old boy was sat in front of his fire with his dog pissing himself with laughter,fully expecting to see me stuck there the next morning.
Eventually i reached my destination,which was in the other direction,and in future i always tried to ask 2 different people for directions if i was ever unsure how to procede,sometimes parking up and walking down dodgy looking roads.
Lesson learned.

[RED-DOG]

I have never had a problem asking for directions,in fact it was at times a neccessity whilst i was lorry driving as (pre-sat nav) a lot of maps did not provide adequate coverage of some of the outlying areas i was sometimes required to deliver too.
Many years ago,i had a load of Christmas trees destined for a farm (for onward distribution) in remote Wales.The weather was atrocious,thick driving snow making the reading of road signs impossible,and as it was getting late in the evening i attempted to contact the farm by phone for directions.Unfortunately i was in an area where there was "no network coverage".After half an hour of slowly driving up and down narrow lanes,i spied an elderly gent walking his dog.
"excuse me,could you give me directions to xxxx farm please"
Result !  he knew the farm and proceded to give me explicit instructions as to how to get to my destination approx 4 miles away.
I travelled the route descibed by him and after three miles i found the left hand turn he had indicated.
This road was single track,thick with snow and twisted and turned for over 2 miles until i came to the end of it....a gate leading into a field!
I am not sure how many of you have driven articulated lorries,but reversing back down that lane in those conditions was one of the hardest driving jobs i have ever encountered,taking in excess of 2 hours.
I am pretty sure that old boy was sat in front of his fire with his dog pissing himself with laughter,fully expecting to see me stuck there the next morning.
Eventually i reached my destination,which was in the other direction,and in future i always tried to ask 2 different people for directions if i was ever unsure how to procede,sometimes parking up and walking down dodgy looking roads.
Lesson learned.

I find it so difficult to believe that anyone could enjoy doing that. I always convince myself that I got the directions wrong.

[booder]

I have never had a problem asking for directions,in fact it was at times a neccessity whilst i was lorry driving as (pre-sat nav) a lot of maps did not provide adequate coverage of some of the outlying areas i was sometimes required to deliver too.
Many years ago,i had a load of Christmas trees destined for a farm (for onward distribution) in remote Wales.The weather was atrocious,thick driving snow making the reading of road signs impossible,and as it was getting late in the evening i attempted to contact the farm by phone for directions.Unfortunately i was in an area where there was "no network coverage".After half an hour of slowly driving up and down narrow lanes,i spied an elderly gent walking his dog.
"excuse me,could you give me directions to xxxx farm please"
Result !  he knew the farm and proceded to give me explicit instructions as to how to get to my destination approx 4 miles away.
I travelled the route descibed by him and after three miles i found the left hand turn he had indicated.
This road was single track,thick with snow and twisted and turned for over 2 miles until i came to the end of it....a gate leading into a field!
I am not sure how many of you have driven articulated lorries,but reversing back down that lane in those conditions was one of the hardest driving jobs i have ever encountered,taking in excess of 2 hours.
I am pretty sure that old boy was sat in front of his fire with his dog pissing himself with laughter,fully expecting to see me stuck there the next morning.
Eventually i reached my destination,which was in the other direction,and in future i always tried to ask 2 different people for directions if i was ever unsure how to procede,sometimes parking up and walking down dodgy looking roads.
Lesson learned.

I find it so difficult to believe that anyone could enjoy doing that. I always convince myself that I got the directions wrong.

you would be surprised.....had an Indian gentleman (a postman) in Leicester go to the trouble of drawing me a detailed map one day.I must admit i was a bit suspicious ,and as i watched him through my side mirror he shouted to one of his mates,pointed at my lorry and laughed.Needless to say,i asked for directions from another person and the original ones were indeed false.