Vagueness and the Aftermath - A sporadic diary

[tikay]

Tom - as Gypsies that travel (unlike yourself) don't pay council tax I wonder why they would think they would be entitled to skips provided by the council? If the rubbish problem is really an issue and of concern to Gypsies and they can't dump in the local dumps why not hire a skip themselves?

It's not something they are likely to disappear easily with so any hire company with that mis conception about Gypsies might be happy to hire skips (I had to pay for mine on delivery)

I didn't actually say that they thought they would be entitled to free skips, (I'm sure most would be willing to pay a reasonable fee). I just said it would be easier and cheaper for the council to provide skips in the first place, rather that turn up with those very same skips to "clean up the filth" after the fact.

Local hire firms would be very reluctant to hire a skip out to illegally camped Gypsies.

BTW- You had to pay for the cost of the hire of your skip on delivery, not the cost of the skip itself.

Another problem Tracey is that skip hire firms will not leave a skip on land without the land owner's permission.

If anyone's ever tried getting a skip dropped on a road for example they'll know what I mean.

Also skip hire firms like to leave a skip for a maximum of 1 week. Any longer and it's uneconomical for them. I know the Gypsies (like the rest of us) create a lot of household waste but it'd still take a while to fill a skip.

There is very little incentive for the skip hire company to leave a skip on a Gypsy camp site unless the Gypsies are paying over the odds for it and why would they?

I, like many others have seen the pictures of the mess left behind by various travelling groups and been disgusted. However, when you think about it it's a difficult problem for travellers to deal with so becomes understandable. If they aren't being helped in any way then what can they do?

Tom; How do you deal your waste from your own home? Have you been graced with a wheelie bin you big snob you?

I have been priveleged - yes, that's the correct word - to see how Tom deals with this.

I was at Tom's place one day, & he said "right, come on, we are off to the tip".

So we jumped in his pick-up - Kizzy and all - & drove some 5 or 6 miles to the local authorised Council Tip.

On arrival, it was clear everyone knew Tom, it was all "morning Tom, how's the missus?" sort of thing.

Tom had three wheelie-bins on the pick-up - I think he purchased the wheelie bins himself - & now he had to get these off the pick-up, & tip the contents into the rubbish hopper. The rubbish hopper "wall" was some 1.5 metres high. Ever tried lifting a wheelie-bin 1.5 metres high, from ground level, & tripping the contents out? He did it single-handed, by means of "leverage", timing, muscle, & co-ordination. A spectacular piece of dexterity. He does this once or twice a week, every week. It said so much about Tom's guile, & knowledge of how, via leverage & pivot points, you can lift heavy objects seemingly easily. Gypsy skills, I suppose.

I recall the journey for another reason, too. There was a "haw-frost" (spelling?) on the trees on the way back, & we slowed down to gasp at it's beauty. But 2 miles later, back at Tom's place, which is ringed by trees, there was no sign of a haw-frost. Strange, the things that stick in our minds eye.

[Jon MW]

Tom, do Gypsies tend to pass names down through the generations?

my mum's best friend is married to a gypsy called John, they have a son called John who last week had a son called John.

just wondering if that's a tradition or if it's just that one family

It's a tradition gat, usually the eldest son or daughter is called after a parent or grandparent.

My Great grandad was called Tom, my dad is called Tom, I'm Tom, and my son was called Tom.

Mrs Red Is called Muzelley, so is our daughter and our grandaughter.

I've just been catching up with the thread.

This in particular reminds me of some family history research.

For a very, very long time this was a general tradition in England.

It sometimes got more confusing for research purposes though. Because the child mortality rate was relatively high it meant that quite often when a child with his fathers name died, the parents would name the next son born with the same name, for example. It hasn't been uncommon to see 2 or 3 sons and daughters in a household with the same name as their parents and grandparents.

It was probably around the Victorian era that this tradition died out in the general population.

Still not as confusing as the Welsh though.

[tikay]

This is going to be controversial.

http://www.gm.tv/index.cfm?articleid=34100

I've always liked parky, but I'm not sure about this article. Having said that, I've only seen a paraphrased version.

Does anyone have a link to the article in it's entirety?

I don't think this is the full article Tom, because I clearly recall Parky referring to her as "puerile" in the piece I read, but this is the gist of it. At the time, I read it as anti-Media, but in fact that's not so - it's also anti-Jade, & anti modern society, really.

Veteran chat show host Michael Parkinson slammed late reality TV star Jade Goody on Tuesday as "all that's paltry and wretched about Britain."

Goody found tabloid fame after appearing on "Big Brother" in 2002 and transforming her 15 minutes of fame into a full-time celebrity career.

She died last month of cervical cancer aged 27, milking the media spotlight until the last in deals with broadcasters and publications to make money for her two sons.

"Jade Goody has her own place in the history of television and, while it's significant, it's nothing to be proud of," Parkinson worte in the Radio Times weekly magazine.

"Her death is as sad as the death of any young person, but it's not the passing of a martyr or a saint or, God help us, Princess Di," added Parkinson, known as Parky in Britain, Australia and elsewhere.

He added: "When we clear the media smokescreen from around her death, what we're left with is a woman who came to represent all that's paltry and wretched about Britain today."

Goody's example has been hailed by cancer charities as well as Prime Minister Gordon Brown for prompting a surge in the increase of young women taking tests for cervical cancer.

She released an autobiography, a perfume and an exercise video, and saw her notoriety go global when she subjected Bollywood actress Shilpa Shetty to racist bullying on "Celebrity Big Brother" in 2007.

[tikay]

And here's the piece by Janet-Street-Porter in today's Independent......very thought provoking stuff, not to say provocative.

Parky has said what many of us are thinking

Just as I thought we'd been granted a few days' respite from the Jade Goody memorabilia industry, Sir Michael Parkinson dares to raise his head above the parapet and say what a huge number of people secretly think.

Writing in Radio Times, he says the dead reality-TV star represented "all that is paltry and wretched about Britain today... her death is sad... but it's not the passing of a martyr or a saint, or God help us, Princess Di".

Parky and I have had our differences, but on this occasion he's triumphed. According to the odious Max Clifford (estimated fee for handling Jade's public relations over the past few weeks, £200,000) Jade "saved" and "will save" countless lives of young women.

That is to forget the thousands of anonymous women all over the country who regularly donate to cancer research, who work in hospices and who toil selflessly as Macmillan nurses.

Jade can't be allowed to hijack the whole business of cancer, and Parky has hit the nail on the head. Jade was "brave", but then so is every single person who has to come to terms with this dreadful disease. Why buy a Jade Goody candle, by the way, when you can simply make a donation?

[Rod Paradise]

And here's the piece by Janet-Street-Porter in today's Independent......very thought provoking stuff, not to say provocative.

Parky has said what many of us are thinking

Just as I thought we'd been granted a few days' respite from the Jade Goody memorabilia industry, Sir Michael Parkinson dares to raise his head above the parapet and say what a huge number of people secretly think.

Writing in Radio Times, he says the dead reality-TV star represented "all that is paltry and wretched about Britain today... her death is sad... but it's not the passing of a martyr or a saint, or God help us, Princess Di".

Parky and I have had our differences, but on this occasion he's triumphed. According to the odious Max Clifford (estimated fee for handling Jade's public relations over the past few weeks, £200,000) Jade "saved" and "will save" countless lives of young women.

That is to forget the thousands of anonymous women all over the country who regularly donate to cancer research, who work in hospices and who toil selflessly as Macmillan nurses.

Jade can't be allowed to hijack the whole business of cancer, and Parky has hit the nail on the head. Jade was "brave", but then so is every single person who has to come to terms with this dreadful disease. Why buy a Jade Goody candle, by the way, when you can simply make a donation?

While not a fan of Janet Street Porter, she's got a valid point.

[RED-DOG]

And here's the piece by Janet-Street-Porter in today's Independent......very thought provoking stuff, not to say provocative.

Parky has said what many of us are thinking

Just as I thought we'd been granted a few days' respite from the Jade Goody memorabilia industry, Sir Michael Parkinson dares to raise his head above the parapet and say what a huge number of people secretly think.

Writing in Radio Times, he says the dead reality-TV star represented "all that is paltry and wretched about Britain today... her death is sad... but it's not the passing of a martyr or a saint, or God help us, Princess Di".

Parky and I have had our differences, but on this occasion he's triumphed. According to the odious Max Clifford (estimated fee for handling Jade's public relations over the past few weeks, £200,000) Jade "saved" and "will save" countless lives of young women.

That is to forget the thousands of anonymous women all over the country who regularly donate to cancer research, who work in hospices and who toil selflessly as Macmillan nurses.

Jade can't be allowed to hijack the whole business of cancer, and Parky has hit the nail on the head. Jade was "brave", but then so is every single person who has to come to terms with this dreadful disease. Why buy a Jade Goody candle, by the way, when you can simply make a donation?

While not a fan of Janet Street Porter, she's got a valid point.

I've always secretly fancied her but I would never admit it in public.

[EvilPie]

And here's the piece by Janet-Street-Porter in today's Independent......very thought provoking stuff, not to say provocative.

Parky has said what many of us are thinking

Just as I thought we'd been granted a few days' respite from the Jade Goody memorabilia industry, Sir Michael Parkinson dares to raise his head above the parapet and say what a huge number of people secretly think.

Writing in Radio Times, he says the dead reality-TV star represented "all that is paltry and wretched about Britain today... her death is sad... but it's not the passing of a martyr or a saint, or God help us, Princess Di".

Parky and I have had our differences, but on this occasion he's triumphed. According to the odious Max Clifford (estimated fee for handling Jade's public relations over the past few weeks, £200,000) Jade "saved" and "will save" countless lives of young women.

That is to forget the thousands of anonymous women all over the country who regularly donate to cancer research, who work in hospices and who toil selflessly as Macmillan nurses.

Jade can't be allowed to hijack the whole business of cancer, and Parky has hit the nail on the head. Jade was "brave", but then so is every single person who has to come to terms with this dreadful disease. Why buy a Jade Goody candle, by the way, when you can simply make a donation?

While not a fan of Janet Street Porter, she's got a valid point.

I've always secretly fancied her but I would never admit it in public.

I don't blame you.

Keep that one to yourself mate.

[Dingdell]

One who also thanks Jade is Shilpa Shetty who has earnt millions off the back of the race row in BB.

In the Sunday Times she thanked Jade for her part in her rise to fame and fortune and since Jades death the media have caught onto this part of the story by publishing interviews and photo spreads in both Hello and OK magazine with Shilpa for which she is paid approximately £20,000 per page if photos are included.

Over the past year Shilpa has earnt over £2 milllion which she attributes in the main to the publicity from the Jade episode.

Jades 'husband' Jack continues to cash in with paid interviews with both the tabloids and magazines, as does her trust fund by issuing further information and stories in return for payment.

Her bridesmaids (apparently her best friends) have sold their story to a magazine.

I have benefitted by people wanting to come to the clinic and we refer to her on our blog, but I drew the line at selling a story despute an offer from a red top for £7k. (And to be honest I could do with the money)

This will continue while the public spend money on buying any magazine with a story that relates to Jade. 

I have witnessed near hero worship from some of my clients who have brought in gifts for her children and family and have openly wept in the clinic over her death, having never met her but having lived her life through the medium of TV and the press. The whole thing is bizarre.

All of these people in my experience have been younger women with children who live their lives not through taking their children out to after school activities but live their lives through reality tv.

To them Jades death brings on a grieving as they have lost the life they were living that was really hers. By watching her on tv they went to swanky parties, they sang on Stars in your eyes, they lived in a big house and were celebrities - because they connected with her. She was like a member of their family. Jades death has left a big hole in their lives. (I'm not defending them by the way)

This hero worship that has appeared over Jade is a reflection on a society that no longer knows how to make up it's own games, doesn't know how to play lets pretend, sits on the sofa playing nintendo and waits for the world to entertain them. They don't know how to race go carts down the road or how to make camps in the garden.

Thats my take on it anyway.

[tikay]

Ding's Post is the best take I have ever read on the whole bizarre thing.

[AndrewT]

I want to race go-karts now.

[Dingdell]

I want to race go-karts now.

My neighbours build them and race then down hills - great fun!!

[RED-DOG]

One who also thanks Jade is Shilpa Shetty who has earnt millions off the back of the race row in BB.

In the Sunday Times she thanked Jade for her part in her rise to fame and fortune and since Jades death the media have caught onto this part of the story by publishing interviews and photo spreads in both Hello and OK magazine with Shilpa for which she is paid approximately £20,000 per page if photos are included.

Over the past year Shilpa has earnt over £2 milllion which she attributes in the main to the publicity from the Jade episode.

Jades 'husband' Jack continues to cash in with paid interviews with both the tabloids and magazines, as does her trust fund by issuing further information and stories in return for payment.

Her bridesmaids (apparently her best friends) have sold their story to a magazine.

I have benefitted by people wanting to come to the clinic and we refer to her on our blog, but I drew the line at selling a story despute an offer from a red top for £7k. (And to be honest I could do with the money)

This will continue while the public spend money on buying any magazine with a story that relates to Jade. 

I have witnessed near hero worship from some of my clients who have brought in gifts for her children and family and have openly wept in the clinic over her death, having never met her but having lived her life through the medium of TV and the press. The whole thing is bizarre.

All of these people in my experience have been younger women with children who live their lives not through taking their children out to after school activities but live their lives through reality tv.

To them Jades death brings on a grieving as they have lost the life they were living that was really hers. By watching her on tv they went to swanky parties, they sang on Stars in your eyes, they lived in a big house and were celebrities - because they connected with her. She was like a member of their family. Jades death has left a big hole in their lives. (I'm not defending them by the way)

This hero worship that has appeared over Jade is a reflection on a society that no longer knows how to make up it's own games, doesn't know how to play lets pretend, sits on the sofa playing nintendo and waits for the world to entertain them. They don't know how to race go carts down the road or how to make camps in the garden.

Thats my take on it anyway.

What a wonderfully well written, insightful,  thought provoking post race. Thank you.

And here I was thinking that you were just a bimbo....

[cia260895]

Seeing as Jade was in the Marsden at the same time as my ex wife it shows how widely different the 2 of them are,

Jade had the ability to use her name to earn enormous amounts of money but my (ex) Alison has to make do with whatever the state handed out to her,

 essentially the two of them might have had the same dreadful disease but had /having 2 extreamly different outcomes,both financially and medically,

would my ex have done what Jade did if she could to guarantee the best for the Boys IMO yes.

As Jade said she was like Marmite you either loved her or hated her but fair plays to her for doing whatever she could in the time she had left..

[RED-DOG]

Changing the subject just for a moment, have any of you ever played a game called "Hot Rice" and if so, can you please post a brief description.

[RED-DOG]

Just me then? I suspected as much.

OK. As you were.