A difficult spot

[Thekellster89]

Fold preflop imo

would've saved £3,500

[Graham C]

No need to thank me, ask before next time

[MC]

Fold preflop imo

Yeah agree with this really...

You have to shove this turn as far as I'm concerned, too much chance you have him crushed. Just UL that it was the other way around...

[jakally]

Fold preflop imo

Yeah agree with this really...

You have to shove this turn as far as I'm concerned, too much chance you have him crushed. Just UL that it was the other way around...

Results orientated IMO.

This situation is not much different to playing a bigger Ace and turning 2 pr against a set.
The difficult spot isn't really caused by overplaying a hand PF.

[hugob055]

look on the birght side, after this thread its only 120 posts til the staking board is available for you.

some can do comedy others cant i suppose

[GreekStein]

Fold preflop imo

Yeah agree with this really...

You have to shove this turn as far as I'm concerned, too much chance you have him crushed. Just UL that it was the other way around...

why do we have to shove the turn exactly? To give A2 type hands a chance to pass? Or to let a set instacall fistpump us?

I like the way hand was played. just a cooler imo

[Jamier-Host]

Make it £2222 and say "is quads good?"

I call and am shown 

Ok he might not have believed my line then....   

[T_Mar]

Think you played hand fine, you are ahead of the range of hands he raises for value on the turn (have assumed a tight range so you could be even further ahead if the villian was particularly loose/tricky)..... nothing changes on the river so just a cooler unfortunately, ul



Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

   1,012  games     0.005 secs   202,400  games/sec

Board:
Dead:  

   equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    60.623%     52.37%    08.25%               530           83.50   { As9c }
Hand 1:    39.377%     31.13%    08.25%               315           83.50   { 99-88, 22, A9s-A8s, A2s, A9o-A8o, A2o }


---

[noble1]

Think you played hand fine, you are ahead of the range of hands he raises for value on the turn (have assumed a tight range so you could be even further ahead if the villian was particularly loose/tricky)..... nothing changes on the river so just a cooler unfortunately, ul

err could you expand on the hands villian check raises for value in this spot on the turn that Thekellster is ahead of?


[to those in the cooler,shove it in camp]
 with no reads on villian,the texture of the board and the classic bet pattern for a set played oop, why is folding this situation bad?

[MC]

why do we have to shove the turn exactly? To give A2 type hands a chance to pass? Or to let a set instacall fistpump us?

I like the way hand was played. just a cooler imo

I read the post wrong, I thought he shoved the turn.

I don't really see the difference between the two plays.

Assuming we check when he checks the river...He only checks inferior hands in this spot. So we are potentially missing value. And we are pot committed to call any river bet by him, which he probably only makes when we are losing.

Hand was played fine, but with the flush draw there, I don't see what's wrong with shoving.

[cooker3]

Fold pf. Are people serious. He is on the button against bad players 300bb deep. I'd probably raise it up if 1 of my cards was the joker.
As for the hand itself, toughish without reads. I'd try to be answering whether he can do this with A2, A8, 98, 9x with a fd and a bluff and from that figure out where to go.
I think your line is fine against an unknown though.

[T_Mar]

Think you played hand fine, you are ahead of the range of hands he raises for value on the turn (have assumed a tight range so you could be even further ahead if the villian was particularly loose/tricky)..... nothing changes on the river so just a cooler unfortunately, ul

err could you expand on the hands villian check raises for value in this spot on the turn that Thekellster is ahead of?


[to those in the cooler,shove it in camp]
 with no reads on villian,the texture of the board and the classic bet pattern for a set played oop, why is folding this situation bad?

I dont think its a stretch to include the 2 pair hands we beat in the villians c/r'ing range here... Our hand must look like a big Ace to the villian so c/r for value with 2 pair makes sense, no?  I prefer how OP played it calling the turn also rather than shoving although I dont think its neccessarily bad to shove

[noble1]

i agree with your thinking to a certain degree T_Mar , but my thoughts on how the hand has played out to now go along like - villian has limp called a raise oop and has check called on a flop -  , the thought that villian has called a raise oop with A2 or A8 would make me spew but limp calling the raise with suited connecters or a pocket pair fits the check call equally as well on the flop imo.
If villian had made a loose call with a raggy ace and made 2 pair,a vast majority of the time being oop they will lead out on the turn or some passive souls would still check call [not many] 
But villian takes the line of check raising the turn which to me screams 22 88 or maybe he called 99 to what he may thought as a cont. bet from Thekellsteron the flop...
a check raise bluff is a possibility but with no reads on villian tendencies this would be a big assumption, also 89hh met be in my mind but again with very little info on villian , check raising the turn with this hand is pretty slim.
So looking at how the hand has played out,the info we have on villian and the betting pattern,this strongly suggests to me that a set is the most likely holding he has, so a reluctant fold on the turn and a big saving is made.
Being able to fold strongish hands is not a weakness,many fine players can make tough laydowns..

[T_Mar]

i agree with your thinking to a certain degree T_Mar , but my thoughts on how the hand has played out to now go along like - villian has limp called a raise oop and has check called on a flop -  , the thought that villian has called a raise oop with A2 or A8 would make me spew but limp calling the raise with suited connecters or a pocket pair fits the check call equally as well on the flop imo.
If villian had made a loose call with a raggy ace and made 2 pair,a vast majority of the time being oop they will lead out on the turn or some passive souls would still check call [not many] 
But villian takes the line of check raising the turn which to me screams 22 88 or maybe he called 99 to what he may thought as a cont. bet from Thekellsteron the flop...
a check raise bluff is a possibility but with no reads on villian tendencies this would be a big assumption, also 89hh met be in my mind but again with very little info on villian , check raising the turn with this hand is pretty slim.
So looking at how the hand has played out,the info we have on villian and the betting pattern,this strongly suggests to me that a set is the most likely holding he has, so a reluctant fold on the turn and a big saving is made.
Being able to fold strongish hands is not a weakness,many fine players can make tough laydowns..

Well you were right here so wp... however I think you open to being exploited if you assume players holdings are always at the top of their range..  I agree sets do play like this which is why I included them in villians likely holdings, I still wouild argue people c/r with worse 2 pair here though and wouldn't think its a bad play to do so

...and yes i agree limp caling Ace rag pre is bad, but doesn't mean it doesn't happen

[Royal Flush]

i agree with your thinking to a certain degree T_Mar , but my thoughts on how the hand has played out to now go along like - villian has limp called a raise oop and has check called on a flop -  , the thought that villian has called a raise oop with A2 or A8 would make me spew but limp calling the raise with suited connecters or a pocket pair fits the check call equally as well on the flop imo.
If villian had made a loose call with a raggy ace and made 2 pair,a vast majority of the time being oop they will lead out on the turn or some passive souls would still check call [not many] 
But villian takes the line of check raising the turn which to me screams 22 88 or maybe he called 99 to what he may thought as a cont. bet from Thekellsteron the flop...
a check raise bluff is a possibility but with no reads on villian tendencies this would be a big assumption, also 89hh met be in my mind but again with very little info on villian , check raising the turn with this hand is pretty slim.
So looking at how the hand has played out,the info we have on villian and the betting pattern,this strongly suggests to me that a set is the most likely holding he has, so a reluctant fold on the turn and a big saving is made.
Being able to fold strongish hands is not a weakness,many fine players can make tough laydowns..

just lol