live hand in biggish buyin

[Longy]

surely is better than shoving and making him fold 1010 99 jj aq etc?

You flat call, and the flop comes down with an over-card to 99, TT, JJ - what do you do then?  Shove the rest in?  You shove it in pre-flop, and they are most likely going to call.  They are less likely to call a shove on the flop with overcards on the board.

They have put an extra 10k in though for starters. Which will be in the main pot with the shortie which you will be a fave to win.

In this buyin you are going to find a lot of live nits folding 99-jj (probably face up cos its cool you know) to a 4 bet iso shove. We probs do stack them on a raggy flop post flop though.

[Ironside]

lol why are they most likely to call? its more than likely they fold if u shove in

LMAO

they are more likely to call you with 99 preflop than they are after the flop when they miss

so youare risking getting stacked yourself by letting them in cheap to hit

if they miss they get away if they hit you get stacked

so get them in pre then whey will either get away from it or get them in when they are in a bad postion

[MANTIS01]

When the pot gets to 50% or more of your stack there is really no need to get fancy. This flat-calling trap play does work, but it's not ideal here. Even with the fact that pot-size vs stack ratio makes this an auto-push for me there's other things that support it. Mainly the reasons given by Homer, Kin & Ironside. But also it's the last hand of the day and you're getting short, so you don't really need a monster to shove/isolate the all-in here. Or at least you don't in the eyes of your oppo...who could easily find a call with A-Q. What's A-Q going to do post-flop on a 9 high board? Cos he will always check it down in the all-in situation until he spikes his A...and will always fold if you bet because he knows you're never bluffing. Action is much more likely pre flop when the guy doesn't know how big your hand is rather than post flop when he certainly does.

[cambo]

whats so funny ironfish? at a min i want that extra 10k in the pot as longy says and atleast have the chance of them stacking off on a raggy flop , to shove in here is losing the chance of a lot of value imo, its highly unlikely ull get 99 1010 etc in a live nit fest calling all in with 2 shoves in front of them

[doubleup]

as a matter of interest - if we change heros hand to AA - do the shovers still shove?

[Royal Flush]

When the pot gets to 50% or more of your stack there is really no need to get fancy. This flat-calling trap play does work, but it's not ideal here. Even with the fact that pot-size vs stack ratio makes this an auto-push for me there's other things that support it. Mainly the reasons given by Homer, Kin & Ironside. But also it's the last hand of the day and you're getting short, so you don't really need a monster to shove/isolate the all-in here. Or at least you don't in the eyes of your oppo...who could easily find a call with A-Q. What's A-Q going to do post-flop on a 9 high board? Cos he will always check it down in the all-in situation until he spikes his A...and will always fold if you bet because he knows you're never bluffing. Action is much more likely pre flop when the guy doesn't know how big your hand is rather than post flop when he certainly does.

Pretty much ended the thread here.

[Thekellster89]

why would we want to shove here, surely we make utg fold loads of hands and go back to days 2 with under ave when we could win a monster pot

lol at this

[cambo]

thanks for ur imput

[cambo]

this is boba fetts hand from last night, he did shove , utg folded aq -shorty had 33 , board came ak8 and he goes into day with 63k when ave is 70k insteak of having 100k+

[Thekellster89]

cant be results orientated

 shoving here is such a better play in the long run

1. flat calling looks just as strong as shoving.
2. but shoving gets money in  vs ak on rag boards and QQ/JJ on Ace high boards.

[NoflopsHomer]

When the pot gets to 50% or more of your stack there is really no need to get fancy. This flat-calling trap play does work, but it's not ideal here. Even with the fact that pot-size vs stack ratio makes this an auto-push for me there's other things that support it. Mainly the reasons given by Homer, Kin & Ironside. But also it's the last hand of the day and you're getting short, so you don't really need a monster to shove/isolate the all-in here. Or at least you don't in the eyes of your oppo...who could easily find a call with A-Q. What's A-Q going to do post-flop on a 9 high board? Cos he will always check it down in the all-in situation until he spikes his A...and will always fold if you bet because he knows you're never bluffing. Action is much more likely pre flop when the guy doesn't know how big your hand is rather than post flop when he certainly does.

Pretty much ended the thread here.

Flushy and Mantis agreeing?

[MANTIS01]

as a matter of interest - if we change heros hand to AA - do the shovers still shove?

Yes

this is boba fetts hand from last night, he did shove , utg folded aq -shorty had 33 , board came ak8 and he goes into day with 63k when ave is 70k insteak of having 100k+

Did the turn come J and river 10?

Flushy and Mantis agreeing?

I agreed with Homer, Kin and Iron.

[kinboshi]

I agreed with Homer, Kin and Iron.

Not usually something to be proud of.

[MANTIS01]

I agreed with Homer, Kin and Iron.

Not usually something to be proud of.

proud?

[AlexMartin]

i dunno, i like flatting if my image is retarded to get utg to do something dumb w AQ+/1010+. NFH is right of course, our flat does smack of a monster but i cant see utg flatting this 3b if he's competent, hes folding or shoving. Yeah i like embracing the variance and going for a doubleup+