GUKPT £300 Hand - 2 Big Stacks

[MANTIS01]

Posted by: EvilPie

4k seems a bit low in to this pot now though so I'm wondering what he's up to.

If you're calling 3.5k on the turn and he now has a monster surely he's betting more. He could have at least 12k out of you if he thought you were drawing which he'd be justified in thinking.

Yes, really like that. If you link this in with his respectable enough turn bet you could suggest it's a river blocker bet with A-4 or similar. I think if you call you will lose. If you fold you lose as well. So the only way to win this pot is to raise the river bet and tell villain you were indeed chasing hearts all the while. If your oppo calls you lose a lot. But then again, we prob want to explore winning as a first choice so tripling the bet seems like a winner imo.

[MC]

Yes, really like that. If you link this in with his respectable enough turn bet you could suggest it's a river blocker bet with A-4 or similar. I think if you call you will lose. If you fold you lose as well. So the only way to win this pot is to raise the river bet and tell villain you were indeed chasing hearts all the while. If your oppo calls you lose a lot. But then again, we prob want to explore winning as a first choice so tripling the bet seems like a winner imo.

Agree with this, the only problem is doesn't a made flush just shove the river? Especially with the pot size. This bet could look a bit fishy, and might get called by the hands were are trying to make fold...

You have to be sure that he is capable of folding 2-pair in this spot (which he should be!)

Shoving is uber-risky though.

[MANTIS01]

Yes, really like that. If you link this in with his respectable enough turn bet you could suggest it's a river blocker bet with A-4 or similar. I think if you call you will lose. If you fold you lose as well. So the only way to win this pot is to raise the river bet and tell villain you were indeed chasing hearts all the while. If your oppo calls you lose a lot. But then again, we prob want to explore winning as a first choice so tripling the bet seems like a winner imo.

Agree with this, the only problem is doesn't a made flush just shove the river? Especially with the pot size. This bet could look a bit fishy, and might get called by the hands were are trying to make fold...

You have to be sure that he is capable of folding 2-pair in this spot (which he should be!)

Shoving is uber-risky though.

Maybe true. But we start the hand with 26k and by the time the river comes we have about 19ish so is the odd 6/7k ever making a difference into a 50k pot? Thing is, if you triple to like 12/14k you leave yourself with a ridic amount behind. This wtf bet looks like a 24-carat genuine flush now. Who wants to bluff the river, get called, and have to sit there embarassed like with a couple of k? All-in can readily be linked to air, but showing a little bit of creativity to look 100% genuine may just be the deciding factor here.

[MC]

Maybe true. But we start the hand with 26k and by the time the river comes we have about 19ish so is the odd 6/7k ever making a difference into a 50k pot? Thing is, if you triple to like 12/14k you leave yourself with a ridic amount behind. This wtf bet looks like a 24-carat genuine flush now. Who wants to bluff the river, get called, and have to sit there embarassed like with a couple of k? All-in can readily be linked to air, but showing a little bit of creativity to look 100% genuine may just be the deciding factor here.

I see what your saying man, I think they both can be linked to weakness though. Many times I've seen ppl bluff raise in this manner for most of their chips, but keep some back so they aren't out the tournament if they get called/moved in on..

[Blatch]

so is the general concensus that the play was correct up until the river??  I see there are a few other options but generally most have said to flat flop, and flat turn.

Anyway I called the river and he flips  to which I looked twice and then threw up a little in my mouth

Was talking to him about the hand as the table was about to be broke and he happily admits he would ahve shoved on me if I raised the turn or river and that the only place I could have made him fold was by over raising the flop.

[MC]

Good job you didn't raise then in this case!

Calling flop and turn is certainly fine, but river call is very much a crying call once the heart hits. You're beating a 3 barelled bluff only here.

Unlucky that the river heart hit and you didn't win a big pot...

[Blatch]

Yeah I knew really that I wasnt winning on the river but the crying call came through .... yuk

[NoflopsHomer]

so is the general concensus that the play was correct up until the river??  I see there are a few other options but generally most have said to flat flop, and flat turn.

Anyway I called the river and he flips  to which I looked twice and then threw up a little in my mouth

Was talking to him about the hand as the table was about to be broke and he happily admits he would ahve shoved on me if I raised the turn or river and that the only place I could have made him fold was by over raising the flop.

Him shoving river vs a raise from you would be horrible.

[MANTIS01]

so is the general concensus that the play was correct up until the river??  I see there are a few other options but generally most have said to flat flop, and flat turn.

Anyway I called the river and he flips  to which I looked twice and then threw up a little in my mouth

Was talking to him about the hand as the table was about to be broke and he happily admits he would ahve shoved on me if I raised the turn or river and that the only place I could have made him fold was by over raising the flop.

I always find it hard to believe a guy who tells me what he would have done when he's seen my hand.

Blatch, in your op you say you felt you played the hand very badly. General concensus is you played it well. Do you now think you actually played the hand well....or do you think Blonde is shit?

[Blatch]

so is the general concensus that the play was correct up until the river??  I see there are a few other options but generally most have said to flat flop, and flat turn.

Anyway I called the river and he flips  to which I looked twice and then threw up a little in my mouth

Was talking to him about the hand as the table was about to be broke and he happily admits he would ahve shoved on me if I raised the turn or river and that the only place I could have made him fold was by over raising the flop.

I always find it hard to believe a guy who tells me what he would have done when he's seen my hand.

Blatch, in your op you say you felt you played the hand very badly. General concensus is you played it well. Do you now think you actually played the hand well....or do you think Blonde is shit?

Hmmmmm how do I answer that??

Im coming round to the idea that I didnt play it as badly as I first thought.  I walked away from it thinking I played it like a calling station and didnt give my self a chance to either get better info or to even win the pot.  However having seen these replies and from some people that I personally feel are very good players (better than their indivudal results suggest) I dont feel too bad about it.

I know what aspects I did well in the hand and what aspects I could have done slightly better but overall its maybe not as bad as first thought

Always interesting to get other ideas and input though - live and learn.

[George2Loose]

Me and Neil spoke about this hand and we both agreed that he played the hand fine and it was a real tough spot altho I said I would also shove the river as Dubai posted earlier!

Any nits out there fold this hand pre flop fwiw?

[noble1]

Blatch has already discounted it but i would of re-raised pre-flop to 3500...as he has only been at the table for a few hands his re-raise should get some respect... also with AJ i want to come in raising with it pre or fold it, i rarely call a raise with AJ without a read on whom i'm calling,...

[MANTIS01]

I still don't get why a guy who says he's very happy to get his whole stack in at any point bets a miserly 4k on the river. Who can explain that? I said at the time it looked like a blocker bet. If it is a blocker bet then he can't possibly say he would have been happy to call a jam...cos that's not why you put a blocker bet out there. The only way his after the fact statement is genuine is if he put in the small bet to encourage the jam. Maybe, the op can confirm whether he was the type of player to do this and whether op was seen as someone who could jam bluff the river. If this is the case then considering op didn't jam the river 3-5 guy was plain wrong anyway. If we do agree the river bet is a blocker then the jam could well have won the hand regardless of what the other guy said.

[totalise]

I still don't get why a guy who says he's very happy to get his whole stack in at any point bets a miserly 4k on the river. Who can explain that? I said at the time it looked like a blocker bet. If it is a blocker bet then he can't possibly say he would have been happy to call a jam...cos that's not why you put a blocker bet out there. The only way his after the fact statement is genuine is if he put in the small bet to encourage the jam. Maybe, the op can confirm whether he was the type of player to do this and whether op was seen as someone who could jam bluff the river. If this is the case then considering op didn't jam the river 3-5 guy was plain wrong anyway. If we do agree the river bet is a blocker then the jam could well have won the hand regardless of what the other guy said.

he bet small because he put villain on exactly what he had and wanted a call. Its an impossible task getting people to fold a flush draw, you are gonna burn through the fortunes of a thousand arabs trying to get people to fold made flushes.

[maldini32]

I still don't get why a guy who says he's very happy to get his whole stack in at any point bets a miserly 4k on the river. Who can explain that? I said at the time it looked like a blocker bet. If it is a blocker bet then he can't possibly say he would have been happy to call a jam...cos that's not why you put a blocker bet out there. The only way his after the fact statement is genuine is if he put in the small bet to encourage the jam. Maybe, the op can confirm whether he was the type of player to do this and whether op was seen as someone who could jam bluff the river. If this is the case then considering op didn't jam the river 3-5 guy was plain wrong anyway. If we do agree the river bet is a blocker then the jam could well have won the hand regardless of what the other guy said.

he bet small because he put villain on exactly what he had and wanted a call. Its an impossible task getting people to fold a flush draw, you are gonna burn through the fortunes of a thousand arabs trying to get people to fold made flushes.

Plz listen when a wiseman speaks.
Post more m8.