DTD £300 Deepstack - March 09

[ACE2M]

Am i reading this right?

You are charging a not unreasonable but top end 1.43 on the buyin, fair enough.

Then you are also charging 1.2 when people are sending the funds?? Why is 10% £40?

1.71 is a bit ridic and abusing the good faith of blonde posters.

Really don't get why you would post that James. You can sell a product at whatever price you want. Buyers can accept or decline. Once the product has been purchased what use is it making all parties feel disillusioned with the arrangement? Do you stop people on BP's forecourt to tell them petrol is too expensive? Do you write to Fernando Torres to tell him he is paid too much? The fact the seller appears 100% genuine gives buyers a better crack at a profit than some staking opportunities that get posted on this forum imo. Some have suggested you post a model you see as standard. That would be a positive way to express your views on staking value. Even then, if someone chooses to deviate from that model what business is it of yours? Anyway, many would agree Maria is better looking than you so can sell shares in herself at a higher premium than you on that basis alone.

somebody does need to post these things, it seems most people's stake requests are snapped up as a bit of interest in people they know personally or through blonde- this is great, everyone benefits. The problem arises in that people see X- small amout for interest in someone they know and snap it up without really considering it - here the poster nor the stakers realised the stake was construted badly, flushy commented, stakers and stakee rectified in good faith and you can bet it won't happen again to any of them.

people really should question these stakes a bit more carefully, this is the 2nd staking thread in a week that i have looked at and been stunned at how happily people leap into obviously questionable stakes.

[StuartHopkin]

How many stakers didnt notice this?
I for one sure did.
Didnt care. If she wanted to add £70 for Vodka and Cranberry juice go for it.
If i was bothered I wouldnt have staked her.

[MANTIS01]

Am i reading this right?

You are charging a not unreasonable but top end 1.43 on the buyin, fair enough.

Then you are also charging 1.2 when people are sending the funds?? Why is 10% £40?

1.71 is a bit ridic and abusing the good faith of blonde posters.

Really don't get why you would post that James. You can sell a product at whatever price you want. Buyers can accept or decline. Once the product has been purchased what use is it making all parties feel disillusioned with the arrangement? Do you stop people on BP's forecourt to tell them petrol is too expensive? Do you write to Fernando Torres to tell him he is paid too much? The fact the seller appears 100% genuine gives buyers a better crack at a profit than some staking opportunities that get posted on this forum imo. Some have suggested you post a model you see as standard. That would be a positive way to express your views on staking value. Even then, if someone chooses to deviate from that model what business is it of yours? Anyway, many would agree Maria is better looking than you so can sell shares in herself at a higher premium than you on that basis alone.

somebody does need to post these things, it seems most people's stake requests are snapped up as a bit of interest in people they know personally or through blonde- this is great, everyone benefits. The problem arises in that people see X- small amout for interest in someone they know and snap it up without really considering it - here the poster nor the stakers realised the stake was construted badly, flushy commented, stakers and stakee rectified in good faith and you can bet it won't happen again to any of them.

people really should question these stakes a bit more carefully, this is the 2nd staking thread in a week that i have looked at and been stunned at how happily people leap into obviously questionable stakes.

Buddy, I didn't dispute whether somebody needed to post those things. I suggested a staking model thread outlining suitable value %'s would have been a constructive method. But jumping on here to voice those opinions after stakes have been agreed between parties is out of line imo. Thing is, just insta-posting a negative comment is so much easier than taking the time and trouble to produce a template...but that doesn't mean it's appropriate.

People need to appreciate that the very best of value isn't necessarily the only reason people want to stake someone. You may think someone's running hot, you may think someone plays well at a specific venue, you may just have a feeling. Your money your business imo. For you ACE2M it's value, but that's you. In the 1997 WSOP ME Billy Baxter staked a peniless crack addict in Stu Unger for $10k. Everyone told him he was wasting his money...no value you see. That stake was based on a 50/50 share and it netted Baxter $500k. Terrible value indeed.

[ACE2M]

Am i reading this right?

You are charging a not unreasonable but top end 1.43 on the buyin, fair enough.

Then you are also charging 1.2 when people are sending the funds?? Why is 10% £40?

1.71 is a bit ridic and abusing the good faith of blonde posters.

Really don't get why you would post that James. You can sell a product at whatever price you want. Buyers can accept or decline. Once the product has been purchased what use is it making all parties feel disillusioned with the arrangement? Do you stop people on BP's forecourt to tell them petrol is too expensive? Do you write to Fernando Torres to tell him he is paid too much? The fact the seller appears 100% genuine gives buyers a better crack at a profit than some staking opportunities that get posted on this forum imo. Some have suggested you post a model you see as standard. That would be a positive way to express your views on staking value. Even then, if someone chooses to deviate from that model what business is it of yours? Anyway, many would agree Maria is better looking than you so can sell shares in herself at a higher premium than you on that basis alone.

somebody does need to post these things, it seems most people's stake requests are snapped up as a bit of interest in people they know personally or through blonde- this is great, everyone benefits. The problem arises in that people see X- small amout for interest in someone they know and snap it up without really considering it - here the poster nor the stakers realised the stake was construted badly, flushy commented, stakers and stakee rectified in good faith and you can bet it won't happen again to any of them.

people really should question these stakes a bit more carefully, this is the 2nd staking thread in a week that i have looked at and been stunned at how happily people leap into obviously questionable stakes.

Buddy, I didn't dispute whether somebody needed to post those things. I suggested a staking model thread outlining suitable value %'s would have been a constructive method. But jumping on here to voice those opinions after stakes have been agreed between parties is out of line imo. Thing is, just insta-posting a negative comment is so much easier than taking the time and trouble to produce a template...but that doesn't mean it's appropriate.

People need to appreciate that the very best of value isn't necessarily the only reason people want to stake someone. You may think someone's running hot, you may think someone plays well at a specific venue, you may just have a feeling. Your money your business imo. For you ACE2M it's value, but that's you. In the 1997 WSOP ME Billy Baxter staked a peniless crack addict in Stu Unger for $10k. Everyone told him he was wasting his money...no value you see. That stake was based on a 50/50 share and it netted Baxter $500k. Terrible value indeed.

I did praise the fact that most staking is done on a friendly basis, just pointing out that even so, people need to mind what they do, if they could all honestly say they realised the juice they were paying and would have happily carried on without querying it then fair enough.

Absolutely no disrespect to chilly or the stakers, they are all lovely.

[julian]

no disrespect to anyone on here who has asked for staking & pls call me a grumpy old man, but when i was hitting the circuit 5 or 6 years ago you sold 10% for 10%; it always struck me as fair.
the first i ever heard of selling with a small premium was the camel who sold some %s for the wsop main event at 1.2 a year or 2 back.
that seemed reasonable given his track record & the loction.

yeaahhh, guess i am feelin grumpy after all

So if you were staking someone in a tourney you would expect 100% of any returns ?

hi ralph,
yeah, in the past i would sell up to 50% of my action & interested parties would receive a straight swap with no overlay.
tony was my main man in the early ept's before i got sponsored & i was always chuffed that him & 1 or 2 others had enough faith in me to put up some of the lolly.
i was the sole benefactor of the recognition i started to get, which ultimately led to sponsorship.
when you consider the potential silver linings that can come with a big result, the money they invested on a 50/50 basis was invaluable; my backers were instrumental in my success & the swaps seemed very fair both then & with the benfit of hindsight, now.

[Rookie (Rodney)]

glglgl

[Royal Flush]

Am i reading this right?

You are charging a not unreasonable but top end 1.43 on the buyin, fair enough.

Then you are also charging 1.2 when people are sending the funds?? Why is 10% £40?

1.71 is a bit ridic and abusing the good faith of blonde posters.

Really don't get why you would post that James. You can sell a product at whatever price you want. Buyers can accept or decline. Once the product has been purchased what use is it making all parties feel disillusioned with the arrangement? Do you stop people on BP's forecourt to tell them petrol is too expensive? Do you write to Fernando Torres to tell him he is paid too much? The fact the seller appears 100% genuine gives buyers a better crack at a profit than some staking opportunities that get posted on this forum imo. Some have suggested you post a model you see as standard. That would be a positive way to express your views on staking value. Even then, if someone chooses to deviate from that model what business is it of yours? Anyway, many would agree Maria is better looking than you so can sell shares in herself at a higher premium than you on that basis alone.

somebody does need to post these things, it seems most people's stake requests are snapped up as a bit of interest in people they know personally or through blonde- this is great, everyone benefits. The problem arises in that people see X- small amout for interest in someone they know and snap it up without really considering it - here the poster nor the stakers realised the stake was construted badly, flushy commented, stakers and stakee rectified in good faith and you can bet it won't happen again to any of them.

people really should question these stakes a bit more carefully, this is the 2nd staking thread in a week that i have looked at and been stunned at how happily people leap into obviously questionable stakes.

Buddy, I didn't dispute whether somebody needed to post those things. I suggested a staking model thread outlining suitable value %'s would have been a constructive method. But jumping on here to voice those opinions after stakes have been agreed between parties is out of line imo. Thing is, just insta-posting a negative comment is so much easier than taking the time and trouble to produce a template...but that doesn't mean it's appropriate.

People need to appreciate that the very best of value isn't necessarily the only reason people want to stake someone. You may think someone's running hot, you may think someone plays well at a specific venue, you may just have a feeling. Your money your business imo. For you ACE2M it's value, but that's you. In the 1997 WSOP ME Billy Baxter staked a peniless crack addict in Stu Unger for $10k. Everyone told him he was wasting his money...no value you see. That stake was based on a 50/50 share and it netted Baxter $500k. Terrible value indeed.

I already explained why i posted Mantis, i don't need to do it again.

As for being constructive i am in the process of writing a template for live staking which hopefully people will be able to use.

[Chili]

I am back from DTD and if you read the update then out of course.  I am so sorry guys I am not on here telling you I'm going to sleep now cos I made day 2 as one of the chip leaders!

Instead, I don't even have much of a story to tell you all.  I had a few hands, all in the first level, QQ's a couple times, KK, AK - all either getting the blinds or winning the minimum.  There was a very tidy player on our table, don't know his name but I think he made it deep in Walsall last week.  He was up and down like a yoyo and in every pot and think most of us were just biding our time to "catch" him.  Well I lost a few k to this chap on monster draws, with me flopping open enders and nut flush draws and missing them both.  We all knew if we could just hit against him, he would pay us off with weak holdings.

My chips just dribbled basically after, completely card dead, my hand had a 2 in it 80% of the time I swear.  Every pot was expensive to enter and coupled with hitting NOTHING eva, they didn't last too long.  In the 150/300 level with 3,200 left I find AJ in the bb, its raised by Nirvana (not for the first time on my blind), it folds round to me and I push.  He insta calls with 7's and first card out is the 7 of diamonds, followed by 2 more diamonds.  I am holding the Ace of diamonds but black brick and black brick on the river sends me spinning to the rail.

I loved the time I was in the comp and very grateful to have played in another one of these thanks to my stakers, just sorry I didn't run like god just THIS TIME!!!

[totalise]

Am i reading this right?

You are charging a not unreasonable but top end 1.43 on the buyin, fair enough.

Then you are also charging 1.2 when people are sending the funds?? Why is 10% £40?

1.71 is a bit ridic and abusing the good faith of blonde posters.

Really don't get why you would post that James. You can sell a product at whatever price you want. Buyers can accept or decline. Once the product has been purchased what use is it making all parties feel disillusioned with the arrangement? Do you stop people on BP's forecourt to tell them petrol is too expensive? Do you write to Fernando Torres to tell him he is paid too much? The fact the seller appears 100% genuine gives buyers a better crack at a profit than some staking opportunities that get posted on this forum imo. Some have suggested you post a model you see as standard. That would be a positive way to express your views on staking value. Even then, if someone chooses to deviate from that model what business is it of yours? Anyway, many would agree Maria is better looking than you so can sell shares in herself at a higher premium than you on that basis alone.

somebody does need to post these things, it seems most people's stake requests are snapped up as a bit of interest in people they know personally or through blonde- this is great, everyone benefits. The problem arises in that people see X- small amout for interest in someone they know and snap it up without really considering it - here the poster nor the stakers realised the stake was construted badly, flushy commented, stakers and stakee rectified in good faith and you can bet it won't happen again to any of them.

people really should question these stakes a bit more carefully, this is the 2nd staking thread in a week that i have looked at and been stunned at how happily people leap into obviously questionable stakes.

Buddy, I didn't dispute whether somebody needed to post those things. I suggested a staking model thread outlining suitable value %'s would have been a constructive method. But jumping on here to voice those opinions after stakes have been agreed between parties is out of line imo. Thing is, just insta-posting a negative comment is so much easier than taking the time and trouble to produce a template...but that doesn't mean it's appropriate.

People need to appreciate that the very best of value isn't necessarily the only reason people want to stake someone. You may think someone's running hot, you may think someone plays well at a specific venue, you may just have a feeling. Your money your business imo. For you ACE2M it's value, but that's you. In the 1997 WSOP ME Billy Baxter staked a peniless crack addict in Stu Unger for $10k. Everyone told him he was wasting his money...no value you see. That stake was based on a 50/50 share and it netted Baxter $500k. Terrible value indeed.

what does that aesopian fable have to do with value?  the profiteers of the gambling world make all their bank on that kind of attitude.

[George2Loose]

Sounds like one of those days when poker can be so frustrating! Unlucky Maria- if you want stakage next month save me 10% pls

Ta

[MPOWER]

Maria

I'll have 20% for next month please in the £330   

Also if you want to play the £165 today i'll do 35% to me for £82.50

email me @ work if your intrested.

Regards

M

[MANTIS01]

Am i reading this right?

You are charging a not unreasonable but top end 1.43 on the buyin, fair enough.

Then you are also charging 1.2 when people are sending the funds?? Why is 10% £40?

1.71 is a bit ridic and abusing the good faith of blonde posters.

Really don't get why you would post that James. You can sell a product at whatever price you want. Buyers can accept or decline. Once the product has been purchased what use is it making all parties feel disillusioned with the arrangement? Do you stop people on BP's forecourt to tell them petrol is too expensive? Do you write to Fernando Torres to tell him he is paid too much? The fact the seller appears 100% genuine gives buyers a better crack at a profit than some staking opportunities that get posted on this forum imo. Some have suggested you post a model you see as standard. That would be a positive way to express your views on staking value. Even then, if someone chooses to deviate from that model what business is it of yours? Anyway, many would agree Maria is better looking than you so can sell shares in herself at a higher premium than you on that basis alone.

somebody does need to post these things, it seems most people's stake requests are snapped up as a bit of interest in people they know personally or through blonde- this is great, everyone benefits. The problem arises in that people see X- small amout for interest in someone they know and snap it up without really considering it - here the poster nor the stakers realised the stake was construted badly, flushy commented, stakers and stakee rectified in good faith and you can bet it won't happen again to any of them.

people really should question these stakes a bit more carefully, this is the 2nd staking thread in a week that i have looked at and been stunned at how happily people leap into obviously questionable stakes.

Buddy, I didn't dispute whether somebody needed to post those things. I suggested a staking model thread outlining suitable value %'s would have been a constructive method. But jumping on here to voice those opinions after stakes have been agreed between parties is out of line imo. Thing is, just insta-posting a negative comment is so much easier than taking the time and trouble to produce a template...but that doesn't mean it's appropriate.

People need to appreciate that the very best of value isn't necessarily the only reason people want to stake someone. You may think someone's running hot, you may think someone plays well at a specific venue, you may just have a feeling. Your money your business imo. For you ACE2M it's value, but that's you. In the 1997 WSOP ME Billy Baxter staked a peniless crack addict in Stu Unger for $10k. Everyone told him he was wasting his money...no value you see. That stake was based on a 50/50 share and it netted Baxter $500k. Terrible value indeed.

what does that aesopian fable have to do with value?  the profiteers of the gambling world make all their bank on that kind of attitude.

Everything. Because putting people and their capabilities into equations in order to produce a generic value answer is impossible. If you have faith in someone, you can see value others can't. Does this mean there is value in that person or not? It can only be a matter of opinion really, so in that respect value in people is subjective rather than objective. That's why telling someone a share in player x isn't worth what they paid doesn't compute. A share is worth precisely what people are prepared to pay for it. And the value of that investment in a person, to the backers anyway, is best quantified by the return.

You also need to factor that value doesn't necessarily need to be purely financial. This week Rookie's dog made her track debut. That was excellent. I would imagine all the connections who went to the track would say they had terrific value for their £10 bet. All that excitement and stuff. Better value than any other £10 dog bet anyways. If the betting hacks told these people the value was actually in trap 3 they would disagree. Those bets did give THEM value, and that's all that matters if you choose to lay a stake.

[RED-DOG]

Am i reading this right?

You are charging a not unreasonable but top end 1.43 on the buyin, fair enough.

Then you are also charging 1.2 when people are sending the funds?? Why is 10% £40?

1.71 is a bit ridic and abusing the good faith of blonde posters.

Really don't get why you would post that James. You can sell a product at whatever price you want. Buyers can accept or decline. Once the product has been purchased what use is it making all parties feel disillusioned with the arrangement? Do you stop people on BP's forecourt to tell them petrol is too expensive? Do you write to Fernando Torres to tell him he is paid too much? The fact the seller appears 100% genuine gives buyers a better crack at a profit than some staking opportunities that get posted on this forum imo. Some have suggested you post a model you see as standard. That would be a positive way to express your views on staking value. Even then, if someone chooses to deviate from that model what business is it of yours? Anyway, many would agree Maria is better looking than you so can sell shares in herself at a higher premium than you on that basis alone.

somebody does need to post these things, it seems most people's stake requests are snapped up as a bit of interest in people they know personally or through blonde- this is great, everyone benefits. The problem arises in that people see X- small amout for interest in someone they know and snap it up without really considering it - here the poster nor the stakers realised the stake was construted badly, flushy commented, stakers and stakee rectified in good faith and you can bet it won't happen again to any of them.

people really should question these stakes a bit more carefully, this is the 2nd staking thread in a week that i have looked at and been stunned at how happily people leap into obviously questionable stakes.

Buddy, I didn't dispute whether somebody needed to post those things. I suggested a staking model thread outlining suitable value %'s would have been a constructive method. But jumping on here to voice those opinions after stakes have been agreed between parties is out of line imo. Thing is, just insta-posting a negative comment is so much easier than taking the time and trouble to produce a template...but that doesn't mean it's appropriate.

People need to appreciate that the very best of value isn't necessarily the only reason people want to stake someone. You may think someone's running hot, you may think someone plays well at a specific venue, you may just have a feeling. Your money your business imo. For you ACE2M it's value, but that's you. In the 1997 WSOP ME Billy Baxter staked a peniless crack addict in Stu Unger for $10k. Everyone told him he was wasting his money...no value you see. That stake was based on a 50/50 share and it netted Baxter $500k. Terrible value indeed.

I already explained why i posted Mantis, i don't need to do it again.

As for being constructive i am in the process of writing a template for live staking which hopefully people will be able to use.

Great!

The first time I ever put up a staking thread, I did it on a no overlay basis.  Flushie immediately PM'ed me to say that I should be selling at a small mark up to cover expenses etc. So the next time I did it, I added what I thought was a fair premium (£130 for 10% of a £1060 comp)

Having said that, I'm still a bit unsure about what's fair and I would be glad to have some sort of guide (as long as it's not to complicated)

[Chompy]

I'm with Julian here in that I only ever sell 50% and only ever at face cost. Can't see why anyone should ever have to pay a premium myself.

[TheChipPrince]

Having said that, I'm still a bit unsure about what's fair and I would be glad to have some sort of guide (as long as it's not to complicated)

+1