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Author Topic: Opening Raise size  (Read 6916 times)
George2Loose
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« Reply #30 on: July 07, 2009, 05:05:09 PM »

Kev has said he’s happy to play these multi handed with the lead. However you’re not going to get the JJ4 too often with AJ are you?


Obv that sentence is not applicable to Dave Jones or a certain Mr Blatch.

If Neil was in the hand the river would have been an ace
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GreekStein
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« Reply #31 on: July 07, 2009, 05:19:51 PM »

At this blind level my standard open in an unopened pot would be 10k. In this case, we are isolating a weak player. He won't want to fold, even if you make it 16k (people who open limp, love limp calling). As such, I'd just make it 12k. Whether it be 12 or 14k shouldn't affect the range of hands the players to your left enter the pot with. And if the limper is calling anyway, I think it is prudent to achieve what we want to achieve for the cheapest price possible.

Lloyd I would tend to agree if we're confident of getting heads up but everytime Kev was telling me about hands he was playing they were multi way cos he wasn't getting his bet sizing right.



Sometimes you just get tables where everyone just calls calls calls and once one calls it sets everyone else off.

The last time I played at DTD I had Gurpreet on my left flatting pretty much every time I opened a pot and it set everyone off flatting so I was opening small until the mfckin C came and 3 bet every open I made for 30 mins. It was sure was fun.
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Autobetkev
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« Reply #32 on: July 07, 2009, 05:35:23 PM »

At this blind level my standard open in an unopened pot would be 10k. In this case, we are isolating a weak player. He won't want to fold, even if you make it 16k (people who open limp, love limp calling). As such, I'd just make it 12k. Whether it be 12 or 14k shouldn't affect the range of hands the players to your left enter the pot with. And if the limper is calling anyway, I think it is prudent to achieve what we want to achieve for the cheapest price possible.

Lloyd I would tend to agree if we're confident of getting heads up but everytime Kev was telling me about hands he was playing they were multi way cos he wasn't getting his bet sizing right.



Not really true George, this was the only hand I spoke to you about on day 2. Day 1 was the QQ hand, but a totally different situation.
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George2Loose
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« Reply #33 on: July 07, 2009, 05:42:11 PM »

At this blind level my standard open in an unopened pot would be 10k. In this case, we are isolating a weak player. He won't want to fold, even if you make it 16k (people who open limp, love limp calling). As such, I'd just make it 12k. Whether it be 12 or 14k shouldn't affect the range of hands the players to your left enter the pot with. And if the limper is calling anyway, I think it is prudent to achieve what we want to achieve for the cheapest price possible.

Lloyd I would tend to agree if we're confident of getting heads up but everytime Kev was telling me about hands he was playing they were multi way cos he wasn't getting his bet sizing right.



Not really true George, this was the only hand I spoke to you about on day 2. Day 1 was the QQ hand, but a totally different situation.

I recall you talking to me about another hand where u bluffed on the turn with K high? I'm sure someone limped for 3k and u made it 8500 pre which picked up 3 more callers? Again inflating the pot so you're comitting more of your stack post flop (admittedly your play worked) I think even the sickest flop players would struggle to play hands in position multi way considering pot>>>stack size.

In summary if you pick up some limpers you have to make them pay more imo. Otherwise position or not- your inflating the pot unnecssarily. I'd rather limp with AJ suited then make it 9k from the button if I'm going to pick up 3 callers either way.  In the AJ hand you may have lost even less.
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Autobetkev
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« Reply #34 on: July 07, 2009, 05:43:36 PM »

maybe i am confused but the reason you raise a pot is to get your oppo making mistakes

by making it 14k as suggested (by better players than me) the guy who calls isnt making a mistake

he is getting 11-4 for the call meaning unless you have an overpair he is getting odds to call

as you know you havent an over pair you want to make him pay to hit so a pot size bet to 22k would of been my bet

but then again the players advocating 14k are IMHO better than me and have better results than me so who am i to argue

Would you make that raise if you had AA or KK?
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« Reply #35 on: July 07, 2009, 05:49:04 PM »

At this blind level my standard open in an unopened pot would be 10k. In this case, we are isolating a weak player. He won't want to fold, even if you make it 16k (people who open limp, love limp calling). As such, I'd just make it 12k. Whether it be 12 or 14k shouldn't affect the range of hands the players to your left enter the pot with. And if the limper is calling anyway, I think it is prudent to achieve what we want to achieve for the cheapest price possible.

Lloyd I would tend to agree if we're confident of getting heads up but everytime Kev was telling me about hands he was playing they were multi way cos he wasn't getting his bet sizing right.



Not really true George, this was the only hand I spoke to you about on day 2. Day 1 was the QQ hand, but a totally different situation.

I recall you talking to me about another hand where u bluffed on the turn with K high? I'm sure someone limped for 3k and u made it 8500 pre which picked up 3 more callers? Again inflating the pot so you're comitting more of your stack post flop (admittedly your play worked) I think even the sickest flop players would struggle to play hands in position multi way considering pot>>>stack size.

In summary if you pick up some limpers you have to make them pay more imo. Otherwise position or not- your inflating the pot unnecssarily. I'd rather limp with AJ suited then make it 9k from the button if I'm going to pick up 3 callers either way.  In the AJ hand you may have lost even less.

In that hand, after 2 limpers at 1.5k/3k/300 I raised my button to 13k (if memory serves me right) with Q7 then checked to me on a K high flop I bet 20k and only got the maniac to call, and bet him off it on the turn.
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George2Loose
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« Reply #36 on: July 07, 2009, 05:50:31 PM »

At this blind level my standard open in an unopened pot would be 10k. In this case, we are isolating a weak player. He won't want to fold, even if you make it 16k (people who open limp, love limp calling). As such, I'd just make it 12k. Whether it be 12 or 14k shouldn't affect the range of hands the players to your left enter the pot with. And if the limper is calling anyway, I think it is prudent to achieve what we want to achieve for the cheapest price possible.

Lloyd I would tend to agree if we're confident of getting heads up but everytime Kev was telling me about hands he was playing they were multi way cos he wasn't getting his bet sizing right.



Not really true George, this was the only hand I spoke to you about on day 2. Day 1 was the QQ hand, but a totally different situation.

I recall you talking to me about another hand where u bluffed on the turn with K high? I'm sure someone limped for 3k and u made it 8500 pre which picked up 3 more callers? Again inflating the pot so you're comitting more of your stack post flop (admittedly your play worked) I think even the sickest flop players would struggle to play hands in position multi way considering pot>>>stack size.

In summary if you pick up some limpers you have to make them pay more imo. Otherwise position or not- your inflating the pot unnecssarily. I'd rather limp with AJ suited then make it 9k from the button if I'm going to pick up 3 callers either way.  In the AJ hand you may have lost even less.

In that hand, after 2 limpers at 1.5k/3k/300 I raised my button to 13k (if memory serves me right) with Q7 then checked to me on a K high flop I bet 20k and only got the maniac to call, and bet him off it on the turn.

nope you didn't make it 13k- you made it much less cos I remember commenting on the fact you were again playing a multi way pot- inflating it unnecessarily with a marginal hand
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« Reply #37 on: July 07, 2009, 05:55:11 PM »

HI KEV I THINK UR BET WAS CORRECT AS I WAS IN THE POT WITH U , U HAD THE 2 CHIP LEADERS TO UR LEFT AND U COULDV'E BEEN RE-RAISED AND HAD TO OF FOLDED
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iveysda
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« Reply #38 on: July 07, 2009, 05:58:18 PM »

U MADE THE BET 11000 IWAS IN FOR 4000 AND WITH A/K I FLAT CALLED THINKING U HAD A BIG PAIR
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« Reply #39 on: July 07, 2009, 06:08:20 PM »

U MADE THE BET 11000 IWAS IN FOR 4000 AND WITH A/K I FLAT CALLED THINKING U HAD A BIG PAIR
 

So my theory that a smaller raise stunk of strength was correct?
1 question, had I made a raise to 14k would you have re-raised me from the button?
Thanks for the input.....
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iveysda
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« Reply #40 on: July 07, 2009, 06:15:20 PM »

I HAD  U ON A BIG PAIR TRYING TO TRAP THE FISH  I THOT U WERE STRONG WI THAT BET LOOKING FOR ACTION I WOULDV'E GAVE U IT IF THERE WAS AN ACE ON THE FLOP , WHAT THE OTHER GUYS DIDN'T NO WAS U HAD ME AND DOUCHE ON UR LEFT (CHIP LEADERS) SO IT WAS WELL DISQUISED
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iveysda
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« Reply #41 on: July 07, 2009, 06:18:13 PM »

NO I WOULDN'T HAVE RE-RAISED U IF U MADE IT 14K AS I THOT U HAD QQ
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« Reply #42 on: July 07, 2009, 06:22:43 PM »

NO I WOULDN'T HAVE RE-RAISED U IF U MADE IT 14K AS I THOT U HAD QQ

So it wasn't my bet size that made you think I had QQ?
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« Reply #43 on: July 07, 2009, 06:30:38 PM »

WELL BLINDS WERE 4K UR USUAL BETTING PATTERN WAS 10K U HAD THE FISH LIMPING WI ANY TWO AS U WELL KNOW AND U HAD INCREASED UR BET BY 1K WHICH GOT ME WONDERING IF U HAD DONE THAT BECAUSE FISH LIMPED OR U KNEW HE WOULD CALL ANY RAISE U MADE , BECAUSE U HAD DONE THIS WI THE 2 CHIP LEADERS TO GO THRU I THOT U WERE STRONG.
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« Reply #44 on: July 07, 2009, 06:48:10 PM »

I WASN'T ON THE BUTTON I WAS I THE BB U WERE ON THE BUTTON
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