Live Omaha Hand

[GreekStein]

fold pre for me

If you don't want to play a big pot, don't pot the flop

I didt plan too but when its checked around that £125 in the pot looked nice lol

Why not bet less than the pot?

Yes £75 obviously gets the same info.

Where's that little smiley man being sick when you need him?

You're not betting for info here. You are bluffing simple as that. The info you've got out of this is that your oppo has top set. If he has the nut wrap he can sometimes peel, top set always re pots here so you are more likely to be up against that.

The info you got should have told you to get it in.

If you were intending to bluff then it's fine. You took a stab and got caught out. If you were betting for info you spewed.

I wouldn't call this a bluff though Matt, we can bet draws for value.

We should never 'bet for info'.

But he passed? So it might as well be a bluff.

If I bet a draw for value it's because I want my oppo to stay in the pot because I think I have the best hand.

This hand aside, I think bet/folding is fine in cash games and hugely underused. If people only bet when they are never passing it becomes too easy to play the game and the player.

I get RichardL to post on it as he has some great thoughts on bet-folding in cash games.

But then you aren't betting for value are you. You're betting to take the pot uncontested or possibly as a stopper bet with a marginal draw that can't face up to re pot bet.

Oh. And you're a cock.

You're lovely.

[EvilPie]

there's this idea that I haven't grasped yet that this we only bet for value or as a bluff is a NL concept not a PLO concept.

we have good equity in this hand and when we bet and 3 people fold our equity goes up. i'm not sure if this is a good or bad bet tbh but i don't think it's as simple as you guys are making out.



 

But do we really need to over complicate it? We can do all kinds of math to work out exact numbers but ultimately the equity is fairly small compared to stacks so we might as well be HU on the flop. It will make a small difference to our action but as the action has gone the £75 of dead money isn't having a major effect on our decision. As we're going to be in a £1400ish pot if we commit.

Yes in omaha you get a lot more information out of your bets than in NLH but in this particular hand it's irrelevant. The only info you're going to get is whether or not you're playing a big pot or just winning what's in there now.

To keep things simple why not just look at oppo's range, our hand, how much is in the pot and whether we want to give ourselves a chance of winning it.

[Karabiner]

Micko I must confess to not having properly read your OP before posting.

It seems as though I must have missed a line as I thought that the maximum liability was oppo's remaining £350 on top of the £125 that you have already bet, which was why i said that I felt it was an easy shove.

It's a far more complex decision with an extra monkey to think about, and an object lesson not to get involved with these kinds of hands imo.

[Micko]

Micko I must confess to not having properly read your OP before posting.

It seems as though I must have missed a line as I thought that the maximum liability was oppo's remaining £350 on top of the £125 that you have already bet, which was why i said that I felt it was an easy shove.

It's a far more complex decision with an extra monkey to think about, and an object lesson not to get involved with these kinds of hands imo.

Yes the extra monkey does make a little difference when your a grinder like me. lol

[Micko]

fold pre for me

If you don't want to play a big pot, don't pot the flop

I didt plan too but when its checked around that £125 in the pot looked nice lol

Why not bet less than the pot?

Yes £75 obviously gets the same info.

Misworded this to be honest and your right i was't betting for info i was betting to win the pot then and there and i didt mind a caller from up front as i know they dont have a made hand and i can always represent the set myself on turn or even be freerolling the win if they are drawing to the straight aswell. I think potting on the turn is ok just was't expecting the button to wake up with top set.

[Micko]

I never get people who bet/fold hands like this. CHECK!

This was more down to the situation i was winning decent money, the stack sizes were akward, still early in the game and to be honest i only put £125 in on the flop if im playing its another £700ish im obviously just shoving.

I dont think its a bad bet fold.

[EvilPie]

Micko I must confess to not having properly read your OP before posting.

It seems as though I must have missed a line as I thought that the maximum liability was oppo's remaining £350 on top of the £125 that you have already bet, which was why i said that I felt it was an easy shove.

It's a far more complex decision with an extra monkey to think about, and an object lesson not to get involved with these kinds of hands imo.

Yes the extra monkey does make a little difference when your a grinder like me. lol

This suggests that you're possibly not comfortable playing a big stack without the immortal nuts.

If this is the case you're going to be very exploitable by someone who is.

Maybe next time you're £900 up it's time to walk away?

This isn't a dig btw just advice. A lot of people get twitchy when the numbers get big myself included. Fortunately the gambler in me helps me overcome it so I can just shove the lot in and pray. 

[riverdave]

Recently played £1/£2/ live omaha and interesting hand came up interested to hear what youse think...

Quite aggressive action and straddleing preflop someone upfront makes it £25 to go i call in the cutoff with five of us see the flop and it comes down a nice looking   the three players in front of me check so im happy to bet pot of £125 until button repots its to £530 hes a very good solid player so everyone else gets out of the way and action back to me. Im playing £1200ish the villian has £360 left after his repot with his stack size im never calling to fold turn so i think its a shove or fold?

Some of my thoughts at the time- Was winning £900 in the game at the time and thought i could find a better spot
                                               - Had the villian on a set likely top set also had no backdoor flush draws

Be interested to hear some feedback on this.

I agree with other comments that bet folding here is spew definitely dont bet this hand 5 way if youre worried about getting check raised and playing for stacks.
If you're certain villain has top set you'd be making an equity mistake to fold here, and also to dismiss calling flop raise and seeing the turn is a mistake. If you are completely certain he must have top set and not other pair wrap combos then nothing wrong with seeing the turn and passing if it pairs up and getting the rest in if not.

[EvilPie]

Recently played £1/£2/ live omaha and interesting hand came up interested to hear what youse think...

Quite aggressive action and straddleing preflop someone upfront makes it £25 to go i call in the cutoff with five of us see the flop and it comes down a nice looking  the three players in front of me check so im happy to bet pot of £125 until button repots its to £530 hes a very good solid player so everyone else gets out of the way and action back to me. Im playing £1200ish the villian has £360 left after his repot with his stack size im never calling to fold turn so i think its a shove or fold?

Some of my thoughts at the time- Was winning £900 in the game at the time and thought i could find a better spot
                                               - Had the villian on a set likely top set also had no backdoor flush draws

Be interested to hear some feedback on this.

I agree with other comments that bet folding here is spew definitely dont bet this hand 5 way if youre worried about getting check raised and playing for stacks.
If you're certain villain has top set you'd be making an equity mistake to fold here, and also to dismiss calling turn raise and seeing the turn is a mistake. If you are completely certain he must have top set and not other pair wrap combos then nothing wrong with seeing the turn and passing if it pairs up and getting the rest in if not.

Interesting.

I assume that this is because he's only got £360 back so we still get the right price to hit with 1 to come? This could be a nightmare hand if we were ridic deep!

What would your move be here if the board wasn't rainbow?

Do you just give up on the pot as we have lost so many of our nut outs or do you take the same line?

[GreekStein]

Recently played £1/£2/ live omaha and interesting hand came up interested to hear what youse think...

Quite aggressive action and straddleing preflop someone upfront makes it £25 to go i call in the cutoff with five of us see the flop and it comes down a nice looking   the three players in front of me check so im happy to bet pot of £125 until button repots its to £530 hes a very good solid player so everyone else gets out of the way and action back to me. Im playing £1200ish the villian has £360 left after his repot with his stack size im never calling to fold turn so i think its a shove or fold?

Some of my thoughts at the time- Was winning £900 in the game at the time and thought i could find a better spot
                                               - Had the villian on a set likely top set also had no backdoor flush draws

Be interested to hear some feedback on this.

I agree with other comments that bet folding here is spew definitely dont bet this hand 5 way if youre worried about getting check raised and playing for stacks.
If you're certain villain has top set you'd be making an equity mistake to fold here, and also to dismiss calling turn raise and seeing the turn is a mistake. If you are completely certain he must have top set and not other pair wrap combos then nothing wrong with seeing the turn and passing if it pairs up and getting the rest in if not.

Interesting.

I assume that this is because he's only got £360 back so we still get the right price to hit with 1 to come? This could be a nightmare hand if we were ridic deep!

What would your move be here if the board wasn't rainbow?

Do you just give up on the pot as we have lost so many of our nut outs or do you take the same line?

The first bit is cos essentially we've committed to playing for stacks but can save £360 if it pairs.

If the board isnt rainbow its an easy pass.

[riverdave]

Recently played £1/£2/ live omaha and interesting hand came up interested to hear what youse think...

Quite aggressive action and straddleing preflop someone upfront makes it £25 to go i call in the cutoff with five of us see the flop and it comes down a nice looking  the three players in front of me check so im happy to bet pot of £125 until button repots its to £530 hes a very good solid player so everyone else gets out of the way and action back to me. Im playing £1200ish the villian has £360 left after his repot with his stack size im never calling to fold turn so i think its a shove or fold?

Some of my thoughts at the time- Was winning £900 in the game at the time and thought i could find a better spot
                                               - Had the villian on a set likely top set also had no backdoor flush draws

Be interested to hear some feedback on this.

I agree with other comments that bet folding here is spew definitely dont bet this hand 5 way if youre worried about getting check raised and playing for stacks.
If you're certain villain has top set you'd be making an equity mistake to fold here, and also to dismiss calling turn raise and seeing the turn is a mistake. If you are completely certain he must have top set and not other pair wrap combos then nothing wrong with seeing the turn and passing if it pairs up and getting the rest in if not.

Interesting.

I assume that this is because he's only got £360 back so we still get the right price to hit with 1 to come? This could be a nightmare hand if we were ridic deep!

What would your move be here if the board wasn't rainbow?

Do you just give up on the pot as we have lost so many of our nut outs or do you take the same line?

It's an easy pass and save £360 if the turn pairs we will clearly still have pot odds to call allin on the turn if it doesn't.
If the board isn't rainbow then i would certainly never bet the flop as the range of hands you can get check raised by is even bigger now and not many of them you are in any kind of good shape against so yes it's an easy pass. You'd be looking to turn your hand and hopefully get it in against someone firing multiple bullets with the NFD/pair combos.

[Micko]

Recently played £1/£2/ live omaha and interesting hand came up interested to hear what youse think...

Quite aggressive action and straddleing preflop someone upfront makes it £25 to go i call in the cutoff with five of us see the flop and it comes down a nice looking   the three players in front of me check so im happy to bet pot of £125 until button repots its to £530 hes a very good solid player so everyone else gets out of the way and action back to me. Im playing £1200ish the villian has £360 left after his repot with his stack size im never calling to fold turn so i think its a shove or fold?

Some of my thoughts at the time- Was winning £900 in the game at the time and thought i could find a better spot
                                               - Had the villian on a set likely top set also had no backdoor flush draws

Be interested to hear some feedback on this.

I agree with other comments that bet folding here is spew definitely dont bet this hand 5 way if youre worried about getting check raised and playing for stacks.
If you're certain villain has top set you'd be making an equity mistake to fold here, and also to dismiss calling flop raise and seeing the turn is a mistake. If you are completely certain he must have top set and not other pair wrap combos then nothing wrong with seeing the turn and passing if it pairs up and getting the rest in if not.

Good post to be honest i never thought about flatting the raise and seeing the turn espescially with the stack sizes i thought it would be a shove or fold.

[NoflopsHomer]

nothing wrong with seeing the turn and passing if it pairs up and getting the rest in if not.

[RichEO]

I bet this flop in my normal game. I fold to a re-raise from certain players who's range I put on top wrap and top set only. I don't mind taking on top set with this hand, but top wrap has it crushed, or same wrap with a pair.

Betting this hand on the flop and getting flat called by 1 or 2 opponents who are out of position is perfect. 1 will likely have 2 pair, 1 an open ender and a pair or something like that. It's very player dependent, and if you are in a tight game there is probably no 'value' betting this hand on the flop. In my regular game there is. If you get flat called it is perfect. I am firing most turn cards when checked to.

Advantages to betting the flop:
Bluffs out pairs and bad 2 pairs that you aren't beating. Maybe even sets from certain players.
It sets up a blank turn semi-bluff perfectly.
It sets up a bluff on a paired turn if you think it will work against certain opponents.
Gets the button to fold a lot of the time and you are now in position in the cut-off.
Action is good for the game!

Disadvantages to betting the flop:
You have to bet fold against a re-raise from certain players.
Might end up playing for you whole stack when you don't want to - judgement required!

So, I bet the flop, but if this is a new game to you or you don't have any idea about a lot of the players in the game - I probably wouldn't.

[RichEO]

Recently played £1/£2/ live omaha and interesting hand came up interested to hear what youse think...

Quite aggressive action and straddleing preflop someone upfront makes it £25 to go i call in the cutoff with five of us see the flop and it comes down a nice looking  the three players in front of me check so im happy to bet pot of £125 until button repots its to £530 hes a very good solid player so everyone else gets out of the way and action back to me. Im playing £1200ish the villian has £360 left after his repot with his stack size im never calling to fold turn so i think its a shove or fold?

Some of my thoughts at the time- Was winning £900 in the game at the time and thought i could find a better spot
                                               - Had the villian on a set likely top set also had no backdoor flush draws

Be interested to hear some feedback on this.

I agree with other comments that bet folding here is spew definitely dont bet this hand 5 way if youre worried about getting check raised and playing for stacks.
If you're certain villain has top set you'd be making an equity mistake to fold here, and also to dismiss calling turn raise and seeing the turn is a mistake. If you are completely certain he must have top set and not other pair wrap combos then nothing wrong with seeing the turn and passing if it pairs up and getting the rest in if not.

Interesting.

I assume that this is because he's only got £360 back so we still get the right price to hit with 1 to come? This could be a nightmare hand if we were ridic deep!

What would your move be here if the board wasn't rainbow?

Do you just give up on the pot as we have lost so many of our nut outs or do you take the same line?

How many nut outs do you think you have with the hand at the moment? Not that many because we are missing an Ace in our hand.

Only 4 Eights, 4 Aces and 3 Nines. All Queens and Kings are non nut outs already. 11 nut outs, 6 non nut outs. Goes down to 8 nuts outs and 4 non nut outs without a flush.

Btw, I am check folding this hand if there is a flush draw on the board. But I am also not calling any bets with this hand in the current non-flush draw situation.