WSOPE Main Event Hand

[Ironside]

i check call


as played i think i bet fold

[outragous76]

cry and wish you had jammed the turn

Norrrrr results orientated not ftw

I was undecided on what the best option is but since players who's game i respect are saying it's better to flat I now think flatting is the best option but more in depth reasoning for why flatting is much better please or has alex said it all ?

Oh and PHA FTMFW good hand keith

nice rub -

for the record - just about 1 page ago i stated exactly what I would do and why i would do it so how the fk is that results orienated?

As for the others?

Why take the pot down on the turn?

1. because there is half our stack in there already, and we can pick it up (i know we have the nuts see below)
2. there are quite a few cards we dont wanna see (just before people start quoting ranges he is in the blinds and we have completed - so assume ATC)
3. Because this hand is far from being played in a vaccum. Detailed analysis in OP suggests Devil fish could easily think we are at it and snap with his entire range that he "thinks is ahead"
4. We dont have to make a shit decission OOP on the river - with something like 30% of the deck being scare cards
4. River options - c/c - well ok but we arent in control.......... c/rai - he aint calling - .............bet fold (to the flush or prd board obv) - well that sure is value


 

[mondatoo]

cry and wish you had jammed the turn

Norrrrr results orientated not ftw

I was undecided on what the best option is but since players who's game i respect are saying it's better to flat I now think flatting is the best option but more in depth reasoning for why flatting is much better please or has alex said it all ?

Oh and PHA FTMFW good hand keith

nice rub -

for the record - just about 1 page ago i stated exactly what I would do and why i would do it so how the fk is that results orienated?

As for the others?

Why take the pot down on the turn?

1. because there is half our stack in there already, and we can pick it up (i know we have the nuts see below)
2. there are quite a few cards we dont wanna see (just before people start quoting ranges he is in the blinds and we have completed - so assume ATC)
3. Because this hand is far from being played in a vaccum. Detailed analysis in OP suggests Devil fish could easily think we are at it and snap with his entire range that he "thinks is ahead"
4. We dont have to make a shit decission OOP on the river - with something like 30% of the deck being scare cards
4. River options - c/c - well ok but we arent in control.......... c/rai - he aint calling - .............bet fold (to the flush or prd board obv) - well that sure is value


 

Why are people so aggressive if you don't agree with them,i just seemed to me you where proving that your play is the right one to make by how this specific hand panned out instead of being open to the fact there maybe a better line to take that's all

Also we don't have anywhere near half our stack in there

[Ironside]

cry and wish you had jammed the turn

Norrrrr results orientated not ftw

I was undecided on what the best option is but since players who's game i respect are saying it's better to flat I now think flatting is the best option but more in depth reasoning for why flatting is much better please or has alex said it all ?

Oh and PHA FTMFW good hand keith

nice rub -

for the record - just about 1 page ago i stated exactly what I would do and why i would do it so how the fk is that results orienated?

As for the others?

Why take the pot down on the turn?

1. because there is half our stack in there already, and we can pick it up (i know we have the nuts see below)
2. there are quite a few cards we dont wanna see (just before people start quoting ranges he is in the blinds and we have completed - so assume ATC)
3. Because this hand is far from being played in a vaccum. Detailed analysis in OP suggests Devil fish could easily think we are at it and snap with his entire range that he "thinks is ahead"
4. We dont have to make a shit decission OOP on the river - with something like 30% of the deck being scare cards
4. River options - c/c - well ok but we arent in control.......... c/rai - he aint calling - .............bet fold (to the flush or prd board obv) - well that sure is value


 

Why are people so aggressive if you don't agree with them,i just seemed to me you where proving that your play is the right one to make by how this specific hand panned out instead of being open to the fact there maybe a better line to take that's all

Also we don't have anywhere near half our stack in there

there might be a better line to take but i didnt like the line camel took from turn onwards

but i think line has more to do with camels image and his self awareness of his image

with my image checking the turn and betting the river would be a much better line

obvs after the scare card on river it would be check calling the river

[MANTIS01]

i am thinking the fish could have a pair and a straight draw here

something like T9 or JT
or he could have spade draw with the T

from the line he has taken the only way money is going in on river is if he hits


get it in now and do this by allowing him wiggle room to shove over top with his semi bluff

unless you want to play pot control with so many chips behind

This

he is literally NEVER going to semibluffshove after we 3b the turn.

Compare his turn call/jam over a 3bet range to his river value bet/bluff range and its burning money to bet/3bet turn. Our image is aggressive, not maniacal.

Only reason to be 3b jamming the turn would be for protection (cant really be for value v other made hands since he will prolly fold most 2 pairs to this action), but with 1 card to come holding the nuts, protection = overrated.

Don't forget that villain's v-bet/bluff bet on the river never doubles us up. It's gonna be worth around 30k cos he never calls our jam with a worse hand on a c-jammed brick river...well no hand he wouldn't have shipped the turn with anyway. Also you can figure that a lot of river cards are gonna be action killers so you may not even get that. Forget protection as the only reason to be jamming the turn because I agree that is overrated. Camel trading-off an aggro image, with a very well disguised hand + the history of DevilFish calling jams and having easy chips put in his lap through the day + his 2x camel's chips widens the range he'll get chips in on the turn imo. I think if you want to play for stacks the turn is the time to try. Also, yeah the board could pair or spade the river and you have to make a proper tough decision. That's a lot of things to trade for that extra 30k. I'm stll undecided but I don't think jamming turn is burning money.

[The Camel]

Dubai is now reading this thread.

I'd like to hear his opinion.

[outragous76]

cry and wish you had jammed the turn

Norrrrr results orientated not ftw

I was undecided on what the best option is but since players who's game i respect are saying it's better to flat I now think flatting is the best option but more in depth reasoning for why flatting is much better please or has alex said it all ?

Oh and PHA FTMFW good hand keith

nice rub -

for the record - just about 1 page ago i stated exactly what I would do and why i would do it so how the fk is that results orienated?

As for the others?

Why take the pot down on the turn?

1. because there is half our stack in there already, and we can pick it up (i know we have the nuts see below)
2. there are quite a few cards we dont wanna see (just before people start quoting ranges he is in the blinds and we have completed - so assume ATC)
3. Because this hand is far from being played in a vaccum. Detailed analysis in OP suggests Devil fish could easily think we are at it and snap with his entire range that he "thinks is ahead"
4. We dont have to make a shit decission OOP on the river - with something like 30% of the deck being scare cards
4. River options - c/c - well ok but we arent in control.......... c/rai - he aint calling - .............bet fold (to the flush or prd board obv) - well that sure is value


 

Why are people so aggressive if you don't agree with them,i just seemed to me you where proving that your play is the right one to make by how this specific hand panned out instead of being open to the fact there maybe a better line to take that's all

Also we don't have anywhere near half our stack in there

sure was aggro

you called me results oriented - clearly im not if i say up front what i would do! -

then you change your mind because better players say there is a diff lline. Im not for 1 second saying my route is perfect - but at least i explain what i would do and why.................. which i believe is the idea in this forum............. not change your mind because others say so.

As for the stack - thought we were playing 100k - realised it is 170

there is still 48k in the middle on the turn - i raise to commit instead of jamming - up to say 88k

[Rookie (Rodney)]

Dubai is now reading this thread.

I'd like to hear his opinion.

He'd prob check, see Devilfish put out a bet, get some sparkle out and do it on the table, then call that bet.

[mondatoo]

cry and wish you had jammed the turn

Norrrrr results orientated not ftw

I was undecided on what the best option is but since players who's game i respect are saying it's better to flat I now think flatting is the best option but more in depth reasoning for why flatting is much better please or has alex said it all ?

Oh and PHA FTMFW good hand keith

nice rub -

for the record - just about 1 page ago i stated exactly what I would do and why i would do it so how the fk is that results orienated?

As for the others?

Why take the pot down on the turn?

1. because there is half our stack in there already, and we can pick it up (i know we have the nuts see below)
2. there are quite a few cards we dont wanna see (just before people start quoting ranges he is in the blinds and we have completed - so assume ATC)
3. Because this hand is far from being played in a vaccum. Detailed analysis in OP suggests Devil fish could easily think we are at it and snap with his entire range that he "thinks is ahead"
4. We dont have to make a shit decission OOP on the river - with something like 30% of the deck being scare cards
4. River options - c/c - well ok but we arent in control.......... c/rai - he aint calling - .............bet fold (to the flush or prd board obv) - well that sure is value


 

Why are people so aggressive if you don't agree with them,i just seemed to me you where proving that your play is the right one to make by how this specific hand panned out instead of being open to the fact there maybe a better line to take that's all

Also we don't have anywhere near half our stack in there

sure was aggro

you called me results oriented - clearly im not if i say up front what i would do! -

then you change your mind because better players say there is a diff lline. Im not for 1 second saying my route is perfect - but at least i explain what i would do and why.................. which i believe is the idea in this forum............. not change your mind because others say so.

As for the stack - thought we were playing 100k - realised it is 170

there is still 48k in the middle on the turn - i raise to commit instead of jamming - up to say 88k

I also gave an opinion to why i also thought 3b the turn was the best move and still feel that was the best play as haven't had enough info to say otherwise so haven't changed my mind yet but the fact the river was a bad card isn't relevant to the discussion,my results orientated comment was just the fact you used this one specific hand to prove your point but fair enough lets move on eh

[outragous76]

cry and wish you had jammed the turn

Norrrrr results orientated not ftw

I was undecided on what the best option is but since players who's game i respect are saying it's better to flat I now think flatting is the best option but more in depth reasoning for why flatting is much better please or has alex said it all ?

Oh and PHA FTMFW good hand keith

nice rub -

for the record - just about 1 page ago i stated exactly what I would do and why i would do it so how the fk is that results orienated?

As for the others?

Why take the pot down on the turn?

1. because there is half our stack in there already, and we can pick it up (i know we have the nuts see below)
2. there are quite a few cards we dont wanna see (just before people start quoting ranges he is in the blinds and we have completed - so assume ATC)
3. Because this hand is far from being played in a vaccum. Detailed analysis in OP suggests Devil fish could easily think we are at it and snap with his entire range that he "thinks is ahead"
4. We dont have to make a shit decission OOP on the river - with something like 30% of the deck being scare cards
4. River options - c/c - well ok but we arent in control.......... c/rai - he aint calling - .............bet fold (to the flush or prd board obv) - well that sure is value


 

Why are people so aggressive if you don't agree with them,i just seemed to me you where proving that your play is the right one to make by how this specific hand panned out instead of being open to the fact there maybe a better line to take that's all

Also we don't have anywhere near half our stack in there

sure was aggro

you called me results oriented - clearly im not if i say up front what i would do! -

then you change your mind because better players say there is a diff lline. Im not for 1 second saying my route is perfect - but at least i explain what i would do and why.................. which i believe is the idea in this forum............. not change your mind because others say so.

As for the stack - thought we were playing 100k - realised it is 170

there is still 48k in the middle on the turn - i raise to commit instead of jamming - up to say 88k

I also gave an opinion to why i also thought 3b the turn was the best move and still feel that was the best play as haven't had enough info to say otherwise so haven't changed my mind yet but the fact the river was a bad card isn't relevant to the discussion,my results orientated comment was just the fact you used this one specific hand to prove your point but fair enough lets move on eh

sure did

[EvilPie]

Is it possible that you're both a pair of sneeky b******s with Q 10 but he's now repping the flush?

Both your lines look strong and like you're trying to hang each other out to dry.

I still prefer the pass pre tbh but when you get that miracle turn I hate the flat.

If he's on a draw we're giving him a free card to hit it and we're not getting paid if he misses.

If he's got 2 pair or a set he's not passing anything now which he's going to call our vb on the river especially with position so I prefer to raise now.

How many brick cards are there for the river compared to potential danger cards?

We know he's either got a good made hand now or a good draw. That means any spade any K, any Q or any pair up could see us face a tough decision on the river.

Without using all my fingers I figure that's not too far off half the deck that slows us down on the river so I can't see any reason not to put in a big raise on the turn.

As played Check/call the river. Horrible card and killed all the dancing bananas 

[The Camel]

Is it possible that you're both a pair of sneeky b******s with Q 10 but he's now repping the flush?

Both your lines look strong and like you're trying to hang each other out to dry.

I still prefer the pass pre tbh but when you get that miracle turn I hate the flat.

If he's on a draw we're giving him a free card to hit it and we're not getting paid if he misses.

If he's got 2 pair or a set he's not passing anything now which he's going to call our vb on the river especially with position so I prefer to raise now.

How many brick cards are there for the river compared to potential danger cards?

We know he's either got a good made hand now or a good draw. That means any spade any K, any Q or any pair up could see us face a tough decision on the river.

Without using all my fingers I figure that's not too far off half the deck that slows us down on the river so I can't see any reason not to put in a big raise on the turn.

As played Check/call the river. Horrible card and killed all the dancing bananas 

I think there is very little chance he calls a 3 bet with anything except T7 or QT on the turn.

If the 70% chance comes in and a blank falls on the river he has to be given the chance of bluffing again (if he's bluffing) or value betting the river.

I think flatting on the turn is definitely the right play.

I'm far from sure my lead out bet on the river is good though.

[Dubai]

I think to assume he is raise folding his whole range except QT and T7 on the turn has got to be wrong.

[The Camel]

I think to assume he is raise folding his whole range except QT and T7 on the turn has got to be wrong.

I think there is <1% he has a set or two pair which include an ace. He would definitely have raised preflop with any hand which makes these hands (maybe he would have checked behind with AA but seriously that's it).

I think he folds hands like 98, J8, J9 to a three bet.

Two pair with spades is a possibility but given it's devilfish I think he raises on the flop with pair + flush draw.

[Ironside]

did you ever find out his hand?