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Author Topic: How to get paid?? Max Value??  (Read 5879 times)
Blatch
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« on: December 21, 2009, 10:41:45 PM »

Playing the Monte Carlo event on day two.

History

Have a very solid player on my direct right.  Has given me 3 walks and had mentioned about him being unhappy.  Raises me blind on blind on 4th orbit and I flat, and then call 3 streets flopping top n bottom.  Flop has two spades on and turn and river are spades and he flips 84 off with the 8 of spades to be good.
Apart from this there has been very little history.  He has opened a lot when folded to him and I have 3 bet him twice to which he folded both times.

The Hand

Folded to him in cut off and he opens to 6400 and 1200/2400/200 out of a stack of 450k.  Im playing 260k ish and flat with   on the button.  Both blinds fold.  I could easily 3 bet here but thought with 3 betting him already a 4 bet wouldnt be too far around the corner.

Flops comes a rather nice looking   three clubs , Yes my life is toasty, Yes its nice, and if anyone is wondering what it is like Ill let them know next time I see them.

Villian c bets for 10.2k which has been very standard for him.  I decided to raise to 27.2k and thought he may get a bit jiggy here considering previous action by me in previous hands.  He decides to flat which I took as a sign of strength more than a pair and draw type hand.

Turn brings the biggest blank  two hearts and he checks.    Do people check behind here and if not what should my bet size be to get the most value out of the hand and create a plan for the river?
« Last Edit: December 21, 2009, 11:07:43 PM by Blatch » Logged
NoflopsHomer
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« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2009, 10:54:12 PM »

Probably raise a bit more on the flop, bet around 30k now, never check this turn. You miss huge value against sets, two pair, -x, Kx-Xc...
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GreekStein
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« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2009, 10:59:03 PM »

I never check the turn.
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Dubai
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« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2009, 11:00:26 PM »

Raise bigger on the flop and then just bet bet bet away
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Blatch
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« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2009, 11:10:39 PM »

Why raise bigger?

My general raise throughtout the comp has always been just under 3x, wouldnt a sudden change trigger alarm bells for him?

I got the figures wrong in OP, now corrected.  Basically every figure I had mentioned should have been doubled.

On the turn, when checked to me, I bet 68.3k with the intention of leaving me an approx pot size bet left.  Is this good bad?  What plan should I have for the river?

He called the turn and the river brings  .

There is aprox 165k in the pot and I have around 168k left.  Does a value shove look weak enough to get a marginal call for 3/4 of his stack? Does a 100k bet out of my stack say I have the nuts? Can I get away with only betting 50k to maybe induce?

Is my bet size wrong on the turn considering above questions?
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Dubai
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« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2009, 11:18:40 PM »

Betting to induce in live poker doesnt work. They wouldnt ship over a bet as a bluff even if u offered them 3rd place money to.

I mean given ur description in op id just ship and expect to get called nearly the same amount of times as if id bet 100k
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Dubai
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« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2009, 11:25:03 PM »

I raise slightly more on flop and bet slightly less on the turn. On the flop he is bet peeling the same range of hands for 35k as he is for 27k and you can manipulate the pot size a bit easier to leave a psb on the river without having to bet as much on the turn. People are more likely to ship over a turn bet than a river bet, in live poker they usually decide on the turn whether to go with the hand so I bet slightly less here and leave a psb on river
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Royal Flush
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« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2009, 11:27:33 PM »

Raise bigger on the flop and then just bet bet bet away

You more than 3x the lead?
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Dubai
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« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2009, 11:30:19 PM »

Yes on this board because people dont adjust their bet peeling range ON THE FLOP to your bet size. Ie they might be bet peeling 25% of their range, but they are bet peeling the same range if you raise it to 22k all the way thro to around 37k.

On the turn its different, they tend to fold a lot of their marginal hands to 70k bets here but will peel and occasionally shove to 50k bets.

Plus making its 27k, 67k shove looks stronger than 35k 50k shove imo.
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Royal Flush
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« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2009, 11:32:52 PM »

What if we raise less to take a line that doesn't end up with us shoving the river?
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Dubai
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« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2009, 11:33:27 PM »

Then we dont double up Smiley
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GreekStein
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« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2009, 11:35:36 PM »

I haven't read the replies but I'd do whatever Dubai says.
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Blatch
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« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2009, 11:37:50 PM »

What if we raise less to take a line that doesn't end up with us shoving the river?

Then does it not look too strong a line when we bet 3 streets and end up betting around half our stack in on the river?

I tried to get bet sizing right from the flop to enable a PSB on the river but im wondering know if I got too greedy.  Maybe I could have bet less and picked up another 25 bb on the river.
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gatso
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« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2009, 11:38:19 PM »

I haven't read the replies but I'd do whatever Dubai says.

you're in luck, he said he'd kiss nevillicious on the lips
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Blatch
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« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2009, 11:39:06 PM »

I haven't read the replies but I'd do whatever Dubai says.

.... and do whatever Dubai does?  

Like trying Middy's boots on for size?
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