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Author Topic: ICM for fuddy duddies.  (Read 21884 times)
Redbull
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« Reply #45 on: February 25, 2010, 10:31:41 PM »

You sir are putting so much work into this. 

Top job indeed.  thumbs up
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thetank
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« Reply #46 on: February 25, 2010, 10:40:09 PM »




I will say this at the moment, for all I rave about Wiz, I don't recommend anyone actually buys the thing. It's easy to use, very pretty and 30 day free trials are nice things, but $100 is too pricey for something that essentially just does the job of an ICM calculator. (That I believe can be picked up for free)
I do not rate most of the bells and whistles it comes with to justify the pricetag. More on that when we continue...

Meh I would disagree with this I think it is well worth the $100 and you be hard pressed to find better value for money for improving your poker game. Just having it for a month on free trial will no doubt massively help your game. I still use it just about every day, constantly reinforcing what I know as well as adjusting my ranges in certain spots.

Other than that, this is best attempt I have seen at explaining ICM in laymans terms. It is a very hard subject to explain.



Changed my mind on telling people not to buy Wiz. It's still the daddy.

There's bits of it I don't think people need that much, but there's still bit's that I forgot about that people do need that free ICM calculators won't offer.

Will get round to talking about that soon.
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KarmaDope
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« Reply #47 on: May 23, 2010, 04:12:34 PM »

Bump?

Tank, do you have any idea if you are going to have the time to finish this mate?
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thetank
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« Reply #48 on: May 23, 2010, 08:35:49 PM »

Fair bump, yes I really should have finished this, left it at about 60%.

Will have a look in a few weeks. (Busy now)
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faireycakes
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« Reply #49 on: September 27, 2010, 10:09:50 PM »

wakey wakey tank.
Good stuff and ive enjoyed it so far.
Think I need to play with wiz tomorrow and get my learn on again.
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Rod
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« Reply #50 on: October 26, 2010, 12:39:11 PM »

Are you still planning to complete thi Tank?

Why does ICM only matter for sit n go's can it not be used for MTT's as well in the late stages?
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thetank
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« Reply #51 on: October 26, 2010, 10:08:24 PM »


Are you still planning to complete thi Tank?


Yes, sigh

If it's not urgent, it doesn't get done these days. I need to set aside a couple of mornings when I'm free to pick it back up and finish it off. Brain too frizzed in the evenings to concentrate.

I know what I want to say, and I'll feel good when it's done I suppose.
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Longy
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« Reply #52 on: October 26, 2010, 10:34:24 PM »

Why does ICM only matter for sit n go's can it not be used for MTT's as well in the late stages?

ICM is relevant in any tournament where it isn't winner takes all.

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Rod
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« Reply #53 on: October 31, 2010, 06:50:06 PM »


Are you still planning to complete thi Tank?


Yes, sigh

If it's not urgent, it doesn't get done these days. I need to set aside a couple of mornings when I'm free to pick it back up and finish it off. Brain too frizzed in the evenings to concentrate.

I know what I want to say, and I'll feel good when it's done I suppose.

Good I am trying to understand ICM but it is frying my brain, according to sit n go wizard I seem to be a nit and I don't want to be a nit (not sure how good the hand ranges I am putting in are though). I should have stuck to playing cash games I can do those *lol*

So in a deep stack event where the play is quite good but generally too tight (APAT for example) if I have say 13 big blinds ICM seem to suggest I should shove very wide from the cut off if folded to me. Why is it not better to raise to say 2.5xBB and fold to a reraise. They are very unlikely to be making a move in most cases, is it because of the percentage of my stack that is in, this does not seem to be too much and I seem to have enough to fold.
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mondatoo
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« Reply #54 on: October 31, 2010, 09:16:13 PM »


Are you still planning to complete thi Tank?


Yes, sigh

If it's not urgent, it doesn't get done these days. I need to set aside a couple of mornings when I'm free to pick it back up and finish it off. Brain too frizzed in the evenings to concentrate.

I know what I want to say, and I'll feel good when it's done I suppose.

Good I am trying to understand ICM but it is frying my brain, according to sit n go wizard I seem to be a nit and I don't want to be a nit (not sure how good the hand ranges I am putting in are though). I should have stuck to playing cash games I can do those *lol*

So in a deep stack event where the play is quite good but generally too tight (APAT for example) if I have say 13 big blinds ICM seem to suggest I should shove very wide from the cut off if folded to me. Why is it not better to raise to say 2.5xBB and fold to a reraise. They are very unlikely to be making a move in most cases, is it because of the percentage of my stack that is in, this does not seem to be too much and I seem to have enough to fold.

I sure don't shove on people who do this with 73os and they fold 95% of time at least.So the answer is it's massively exploitable.
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Rod
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« Reply #55 on: October 31, 2010, 10:11:32 PM »


Are you still planning to complete thi Tank?


Yes, sigh

If it's not urgent, it doesn't get done these days. I need to set aside a couple of mornings when I'm free to pick it back up and finish it off. Brain too frizzed in the evenings to concentrate.

I know what I want to say, and I'll feel good when it's done I suppose.

Good I am trying to understand ICM but it is frying my brain, according to sit n go wizard I seem to be a nit and I don't want to be a nit (not sure how good the hand ranges I am putting in are though). I should have stuck to playing cash games I can do those *lol*

So in a deep stack event where the play is quite good but generally too tight (APAT for example) if I have say 13 big blinds ICM seem to suggest I should shove very wide from the cut off if folded to me. Why is it not better to raise to say 2.5xBB and fold to a reraise. They are very unlikely to be making a move in most cases, is it because of the percentage of my stack that is in, this does not seem to be too much and I seem to have enough to fold.

I sure don't shove on people who do this with 73os and they fold 95% of time at least.So the answer is it's massively exploitable.
But most people don't, they probably should be but they don't.

Am I over thinking this and trying to make it more complex than it is. What stack size would you be open shoving with? 13BB seem too big to be open shoving even from late position. Also I assume I should be trying to exploit the other players who do this a lot.
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gatso
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« Reply #56 on: October 31, 2010, 10:23:18 PM »

13BB with antes on a full table is going to be equivalent to about 8BB without antes (assuming the ante is approx 1/10 of a BB which is true of apat structure)

if your cutoff point without antes is 10xBB that's going to be about 16BB with antes so we can start shoving much sooner
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superwomble
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« Reply #57 on: February 29, 2012, 04:29:28 PM »

Another newcomer to this post, great so far thanks!
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