Discussions about: Staking - Betfair Football Trading

[erse]

The only reliable indicator(s) are going to be
a) His bank account, failing that
b) List of people who 'donated' money

Since people wanted to remain anonymous I think you'll be hard pressed to discover the true amount. If police did investigate and reviewed his bank account, they'd not likely disclose the amount until it was in court.

[kinboshi]

Apologies if the following questions are stupid or irritating - I have read the whole thing, and my commiserations to all those involved, but I might well have missed something.

Is it still not possible after all Floppy's work to calculate how much money was lost on the Betfair account and how much was outright stolen? Am I right in thinking that nobody has added up exactly how much money was sent to him, and no-one can find out even with access to the account how much was deposited and withdrawn (on top of the figures that were dumped)?

P&L is -43,584.20

Though some of this was dumped from one account to another.

OK. About £20.7k was dumped according to NoFlops' numbers, so he actually lost about £23k?

Again, apologies if I'm actually going over well-trodden ground here. It's not really any of my business. But from here it feels like everyone's concentrating disproportionately on the Betfair account and the betting side of things, and the lies he told. It sounds like everyone's giving up on the money, assuming it's all lost etc (it may be). And then all the talk of how it will be too complicated for the police to understand blah blah.

But it's not actually complicated in the slightest, is it? He lost £23k and now he won't send back any money, so he outright stole ~£45k, or whatever the exact figure is, plus Vegas money and whatnot. Some of that went through a Betfair account, some of it didn't, but whether or not it was used on any exchanges or not in the interim is basically irrelevant. Am I out of line in thinking that there's been too much talk about and dissection of the details, and not enough reporting to the police by everyone involved of a blatant £45k theft? (* People may obviously have been doing this behind the scenes, I wouldn't know, and I'm probably not going to post again on this since, as I say, probably not my business.)

Mosk, your post makes sense and you're not just posting to stir things up - so no need for you to apologise for giving your opinion and thoughts on this.

As an investor, the only hope of getting any money back is if he's stashed some of it away somewhere rather than blowing the lot. 

[damo66688]

Apologies if the following questions are stupid or irritating - I have read the whole thing, and my commiserations to all those involved, but I might well have missed something.

Is it still not possible after all Floppy's work to calculate how much money was lost on the Betfair account and how much was outright stolen? Am I right in thinking that nobody has added up exactly how much money was sent to him, and no-one can find out even with access to the account how much was deposited and withdrawn (on top of the figures that were dumped)?

P&L is -43,584.20

Though some of this was dumped from one account to another.

OK. About £20.7k was dumped according to NoFlops' numbers, so he actually lost about £23k?

Again, apologies if I'm actually going over well-trodden ground here. It's not really any of my business. But from here it feels like everyone's concentrating disproportionately on the Betfair account and the betting side of things, and the lies he told. It sounds like everyone's giving up on the money, assuming it's all lost etc (it may be). And then all the talk of how it will be too complicated for the police to understand blah blah.

But it's not actually complicated in the slightest, is it? He lost £23k and now he won't send back any money, so he outright stole ~£45k, or whatever the exact figure is, plus Vegas money and whatnot. Some of that went through a Betfair account, some of it didn't, but whether or not it was used on any exchanges or not in the interim is basically irrelevant. Am I out of line in thinking that there's been too much talk about and dissection of the details, and not enough reporting to the police by everyone involved of a blatant £45k theft? (* People may obviously have been doing this behind the scenes, I wouldn't know, and I'm probably not going to post again on this since, as I say, probably not my business.)

Think they are all very valid points

The only reliable indicator(s) are going to be
a) His bank account, failing that
b) List of people who 'donated' money

Since people wanted to remain anonymous I think you'll be hard pressed to discover the true amount. If police did investigate and reviewed his bank account, they'd not likely disclose the amount until it was in court.

Think maybe one of the mods should compile a list of PM's of who has sent money.   A lot are not going to post their amounts from a embarassment/private perspective.  No need for others to be privy to that info

[tropicana]

as soon as he's charged, nobody will be allowed to discuss it on forums at all

[railtard1]

Yesterday was one of the toughest of my life and what I'm about to say is going to be tough too. Looking at Chris's spreadsheet and taking everything into account, I believe this was a scam from the start. Neil, if you're reading this I am sorry but I can't help you anymore. If we were ever friends you will not try to contact me after today. You're not the person I thought you were. You have conned, lied and cheated not just from randoms but from your closest friends.

I am sorry for those who have lost out. I am not going to ask Neil to ever repay me. Call it a parting gift- my friendship to you actually meant something to me.

Please can I ask that no one contact me re Neil or anything on here. I wanted to help but I have to look after my own family now. If there's one good thing to come out of this I've realised more than ever how much my wife and kids mean to me.

well said sir!

[Google]

Only criminal charge i can see is obtaining monies by deception - i.e. getting extra funding on the basis of the lies about how successful the trading was going. You need to find the amount invested before he started lying and the amount after. All the monies received after lying will contribute to the case, anything before that will not be relevant in the eyes of the CPS.

Either way someone needs to take the mantle and go to see the police and be the main contact. Obtaining money by deception carries a max sentence of 7 years but he obv won't get anything close to this, he can expect a good 18 months inside though and he will lose infinitely more than 70k over the course of his life as a result of lost job opportunities etc.

GL

[NoflopsHomer]

Apologies if the following questions are stupid or irritating - I have read the whole thing, and my commiserations to all those involved, but I might well have missed something.

Is it still not possible after all Floppy's work to calculate how much money was lost on the Betfair account and how much was outright stolen? Am I right in thinking that nobody has added up exactly how much money was sent to him, and no-one can find out even with access to the account how much was deposited and withdrawn (on top of the figures that were dumped)?

P&L is -43,584.20

Though some of this was dumped from one account to another.

OK. About £20.7k was dumped according to NoFlops' numbers, so he actually lost about £23k?

Again, apologies if I'm actually going over well-trodden ground here. It's not really any of my business. But from here it feels like everyone's concentrating disproportionately on the Betfair account and the betting side of things, and the lies he told. It sounds like everyone's giving up on the money, assuming it's all lost etc (it may be). And then all the talk of how it will be too complicated for the police to understand blah blah.

But it's not actually complicated in the slightest, is it? He lost £23k and now he won't send back any money, so he outright stole ~£45k, or whatever the exact figure is, plus Vegas money and whatnot. Some of that went through a Betfair account, some of it didn't, but whether or not it was used on any exchanges or not in the interim is basically irrelevant. Am I out of line in thinking that there's been too much talk about and dissection of the details, and not enough reporting to the police by everyone involved of a blatant £45k theft? (* People may obviously have been doing this behind the scenes, I wouldn't know, and I'm probably not going to post again on this since, as I say, probably not my business.)

There is also the fact that on the 18th February, the following happens in the Liverpool game:

In this game, he used £69,584.96 of money to create a liability of -£21,571.43 @1.31 (He lays Liverpool off). He then uses £80,200 backing Liverpool @ 1.27 to make £21,654.01 when Liverpool actually win - thus a profit of £82.58 (52). Only £21,058.68 was lost from the 18th Feb until the 10th June, so draw your own conclusions about how much was in the account at these points.

[Longines]

In this game, he used £69,584.96 of money to create a liability of -£21,571.43 @1.31 (He lays Liverpool off). He then uses £80,200 backing Liverpool @ 1.27 to make £21,654.01 when Liverpool actually win - thus a profit of £82.58 (52). Only £21,058.68 was lost from the 18th Feb until the 10th June, so draw your own conclusions about how much was in the account at these points.

Does the £21,058.68 figure include the trades you identified as obvious inter-account dump bets? If so, is it fair to infer that somewhere close to £60,000 was withdrawn from the account between 18th Feb and 10th June?

[The Camel]

Two questions:

Why did Blatch let anyone see the account and not just do a runner when it became obvious he was rumbled?

Why did he dump the funds, not just simply withdraw them when he was in sole command of the account? Just wasting commission money isn't it?

[ACE2M]

Two questions:

Why did Blatch let anyone see the account and not just do a runner when it became obvious he was rumbled?

Why did he dump the funds, not just simply withdraw them when he was in sole command of the account? Just wasting commission money isn't it?

playing poker on the other account? dumping to someone else he owed? do we know details of his other account yet?

[arbboy]

keith i agree with your questions as well.  A third one would be: why would u take wsop staking money then admit on a thread u never had any intention of going (therefore making obtaining money by deception a far more likely outcome in court)

I seriously just think this guy is totally insane and got in so deep (he went quiet for hours between my rants because he knew he had been totally exposed and i wasnt going anyway) he just didnt have a clue what to do.  I seriously think he started this thinking he had an outside chance of winning seriously massive here (like £500k +)  What price with a £70k + bankroll would you be to run good for a few months betting £10k/£20k a bet and get it up to those sorts of figures?  You are a dog but not a big dog imo.

[The Layer]

I've got no investment, but came close to stomping up a few quid before the world cup, and I'm only glad I never.

The one point I'd like to make is in regards to the people calling for the police involvement what criminal offence has been committed?

The investors passed money onto blatch willingly, granted it was an elaborate con and he lied through his teeth from the day dot but thats not a criminal offence.  He may have got creative on betfair and "dumped" money to other accounts, again that as far as I know is not criminal, if anything he's contravened betfair T&C's and may well have his accounts suspended.

I really feel gutted for anyone who's been drawn into this con regardless of wether it was only beer money you stumped up or if it was a sum you couldn't afford to lose.  I sincerely hope that you all get something back, but I don't hold out much hope. 

One thing that was of interest was a post that Mick McCool made on another forum back on the 16th of April  I have bolded the two most interesting parts to me, the first one is key imo, I thought Blatch made his main income from trading the tennis?

 

Blatch is fucking useless at Tennis Trades, trust me, l know. Key to trading Tennis successfully is to trade on HUMAN MARKET REACTION. I buy and sell huge amounts each day with Betting Assistant Software which allows me to set it up so that lm green almost instantly because of HMR, l don't make huge amounts because l sell out, but l get enough to have a very comfortable life. You can gamble your profits for bigger profits but why bother being greedy, people come and go on Betfair thinking they can make a quick fortune, doesn't happen! Tennis is the dogs bollocks for this!

[Google]

The one point I'd like to make is in regards to the people calling for the police involvement what criminal offence has been committed?

see 6 posts before yours

[Longines]

Why did he dump the funds, not just simply withdraw them when he was in sole command of the account? Just wasting commission money isn't it?

Given his sociopath tendencies, expecting everything he did to be entirely rational is probably a stretch too far....

One theory is he may have still had delusions of pulling it all out of the bag and squaring everything off; by skimming to another account the addict could continue to punt from two accounts; double the chance of getting out. Just withdrawing it all would have crystallised the crisis in his own mind much sooner.

Just a guess.

[adammarkpreston]

Chris,

Thanks for doing this. Definitely nailed his "story" as crock...

How recent is the info from Betfair? I along with others "invested" in the WSOP stake, which I was presuming was actually spent on the Betfair account to try to spin up as he never intended going to WSOP uinless he won enough back. Is there any evidence he deposited the WSOP monies onto Betfair or was it probably used to fund the Balla life like he showed at Blondebash (he did around £600 at the 2/2 PLO table there £100 per hand, pity I couldn't get a decent hand while he was there, might have won some of my stake back).

He hadnt deposited a long time into the account so god knows where the wsop money is which is what i have been trying to ask all along the thread, he has it somewhere and the people that funded wsop need to contact someone on here to tell them how much and what date.

For the people that have added me on facebook presumably of the Neil Blatchy page i will get round to accepting you all at some point today. Ive been making my way through it all since last night and will post up my bits, well done flops for the detailed account.