Discussions about: Staking - Betfair Football Trading

[maryhadalamb]

Seems ludicrous that posts condoning taking action into your own hands with a cricket bat are not removed, yet investors sensibilities are protected so fiercely. Of course it's not a nice feeling having done off a wedge, however, we need to be aware how foolish we look to anyone not involved and expect some ribbing. So many diversions, moaning about betfair etc, investors just need to think coherently about what is in their best interests, imho threatening Blatch, or allowing posts doing so to be aired on a public forum is  not wise.

[MANTIS01]

given the recent case in the media of http://techcrunch.com/2010/05/10/man-found-guilty-after-twitter-joke-about-blowing-up-an-airport/ , i don't think stuff like this looks particularly clever.

Someone must know where he lives?  Tell ya what, Ill give an extra £100 into the pool if somone takes a nice big cricket bat and make sure he sucks his food through a straw for the rest of his days....  That would bring a big smile to my face....

------------------

i'm in the city tomorrow, and part of hopefully a new exchange being set up.  its going to be an interesting day .  i know i have many detractors, and many people who try to shout down my opinion (same as happened to arbboy on here?), but tonight i have felt more and more uncomfortable about hearing of this case.  i spoke to blatch today and find it appalling that after a number of inter-account money dumps, probably breaking money laundering rules, and a seeming £120,000 grimming scheme, the total input so far from betfair has apparently been a phone call to say "some people have been trying to log into your account/guess your password".  if that is true, then seriously what on earth is going on?

Imagine you are a ten year old kid, and your twin brother smashes your piggy bank, and takes all the 2p coins to the local fair.  At the fair is one of those 2p machines, where you put your money in at the top, and hope that when it lands, it pushes lots of other 2p’s on the edge of the ledge in front of you, down into the ‘collect’ slot.  

Those machines work, by not having many 2p’s on the ledge in front of you to start with, and despite having some payouts over the day, at the end of the day, there will be a build up of 2p’s.  
The money your twin brother stole from you will end up sat there, and at the end of the day, the machine owner will collect maybe 30 to 40% of the 2p’s, so that the next day the process can start up all over again.  
The thing is in this case, there is £120,000 of money that (seems) to have been lost.  There is clear evidence with the paper trail of where much of this originally went, and about 8k paid in commission (apparently) on the bets on this account which actually won.  There will also have been a similar amount of commission paid by the winning parties on the other side to Blatch’s losing bets.

I was in a pub many years ago with someone who was very well connected, who said he knew that the ratio of money paid out to winners on winning accounts by betfair, was about equal at the time to the amount of commission betfair managed to rake in.  So for every £120,000 deposited, if that still held true, the exchange would get 60k, and 60k would go to shrewd accounts.  Blatch’s bets may have generated around 16 to 20k of initial commission, but that money he lost to other accounts will also have been shuttled backwards and forwards, and re-raked many times.  

The 120k has been lost.  A fair estimate would be that about 60k of it will in the end end up in BF coffers (assuming all of it was lost on BF).   My point is that there is a responsibility of the exchange, especially given that the money-laundering inter-account dumping seems to have been freely and repeatedly bypassed, to look after the welfare of the community.  Almost nobody else on this thread has suggested that BF are in part at fault, for allowing the Blatch accounts to keep trading without ever getting a warning about breaking money laundering rules.  If BF had been following money-laundering regulations, a significant part of the pot would not have been continued to be gambled and lost.  In the end how much money was lost into the pot after money laundering regs were broken?  Do BF have a vested interest, and have they profited, by ignoring requirements to not allow precisely the kind of behaviour which Blatch did actually engage in?  Would the 120k of deposits been as badly depleted had BF stopped the trading?  My guess is that he would have switched onto other exchanges, websites, casinos or whatever, and lost the money elsewhere, but the fact is, BF have profited from the misery of the 120k investors, by not enforcing money laundering regs.  Is that not poor form?

BF have probably benefitted by about 60k from this scam.  Its a horrible nasty story, which brings exchanges and the gambling community into disrepute.  Is it any wonder why countries like Holland ban BF from operating there, after money-laundering regulations are treated as a bit of a joke?  Why is BF’s first and only call to Blatch to warn him about multiple people trying to guess his password and log in on his account, and not one person at BF has called him to ask what the hell is going on?  This is not organising a pishup in a brewery, this is about a genuine responsibility to protect people who are getting conned, and protecting the exchange itself from fraudulent activity.  It would seem reasonable to have expected them to get on top of a £120,000 scam facilitated by BF, and to get on top of it quickly.  Again, it seems that as the victims aren’t BF themselves, its just punters’ money, then its tough, and BF ends up trousering about 16k to 20k of commission directly, and probably about 60k overall of the victims’ funds.   Is this really acceptable?   I don’t think it is, but then again, perhaps i’m in a minority.  Maybe they could put a little motto hanging over the front of BF H.Q. in Hammersmith, saying “who doesn’t care, wins”.   60 large as well 

Just like those 2p’s are sat there in the machine, 60k of that 120k is also sat there in BF coffers.  If I owned the 2p machine, and had a credible story told to me how one kid had stolen the others money, and put it in there, I’d give that kid the money back if I had the chance.   If Blatch had taken a sawn-off shotgun into the local building society, nicked 10k, and then spaffed it away in a couple of days playing BF games/meteors or whatever, then if BF became conscious of where the 10k had come from later in the week, if it was sat in there accounts, would it not make sense to return it?  Is BF a place where the victims of crime/con-merchants etcetera, can see their money dumped and ringfenced away from them?

If you provide these markets, if you don’t enforce money laundering regulations, if you pocket 20k in commission from these bets, and then probably benefit to the tune of another 40k as this money is then recycled between other customers, then given that there are people seriously hurt by this, its time to speak to Blatch, get a complete list of who is owed what, and return that 20k proportionately as 16.66pence in the pound, to people who have seen their money smashed away.  It just isn’t fair for Bet-fair to have made 20k minimum out of Blatch’s victims, and BF should be trying to look for a way to end up having lost nothing through this, but also having not made a £20,000 minimum killing on it.  Otherwise there is an incentive in the future to pressure whoever is supposed to be in charge of upholding money-laundering regulations, to allow dodgy accounts to keep betting.  I doubt that is what happened here, my guess is just sheer incompetence from whoever was supposed to spot the money-dumping between accounts, but if it kept happening, it wouldn’t be a stretch to wonder precisely what orders were being given to the supposed money laundering team.  


Make betting fair.  (You know you want to really,.... )

dj

 

That part where I imagined my twin brother smashed up my piggy bank and gambled the stolen 2p's down the fair cut me up a bit.

[TightEnd]

Time out everyone, and its time for me to be Mr Unpopular

Going to lock the thread for the night as some people need to calm down as the thread moves towards flaming and bickering on assorted subjects.

I'll open it back up in the morning when hopefully calmer heads are prevailing.

Posts on the issue on new threads will be removed.



Here's where I depart from a number of posters on the thread. Do what you like on risible facebook groups and off this forum but really this place is not the location for some of the stuff I see posted here.

Rest assured that behind the scenes a number of people are working to progress the situation and some of that can't be published on here. Threats of physical violence in the last couple of days towards anyone don't help that situation progress, in the opinion of a number of investors who have contacted me tonight. The mods have tried to leave well alone but it's time for a break.

This story has a number of levels. Of course it has attracted people to this place from here there and everywhere. Welcome to you all

There is a forum here beyond this story. Why not take a look around?

For example,


some of the finest blog writing around, on any subject:

http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=25486.0 and

http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=30601.0


Perhaps you want to get news of every WSOP event, daily?

http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=48100.0


How about news from virtually every UK live poker venue on this board?

http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?board=5.0


Or, thanks to Mr Girgy, his opinions of the most attractive ladies on the planet. (Feel free to add but tasteful pictures only please!)

http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=48435.0



My point is, this forum is much more than this story. If you take a look around you'll see some of the unique atmosphere of the place, the community spirit (arbboy would say "a clique" perhaps) and the sheer breadth of topics covered here

and that's even without trying to do a commercial sell, which would be crass in the circumstances


If you do look around, it might help some new posters get the "tone" of the place, and post accordingly, and understand why some of the long standing posters on here are looking out for each other on this thread and perhaps get a little sensitive when new guys come on and have a pop, which happened earlier this evening.

Feel free to stick around, and the thread will be open again in the morning.

[TightEnd]

and the thread is open again

Please please please read what the mods are saying here, keep the thread civil and minus threats and thank you

[thetank]

I was going to flame the shit out of djsunset last night because he doesn't understand how those 2p machines at the funfair work, clearly a critical point that needs addressing.

Thread was locked so I cooled down. Mods pwn me so hard.

[piemaster]

Has anybody actually reported this to the police?

Yes, I know, there have been a lot of posts suggesting that it has been, people hinting they may know someone who might have done so etc, but can anybody confirm they themselves have actually been into a police station, spoken to an officer, filled in all the paperwork, got a reference number* etc?  Because the number of people involved is so large, and the amount of empty rhetoric so high, that it occurs to me that everyone might be leaving it to everybody else and nobody has actually done anything.

* I've never actually been in a police station, so I'm a bit hazy on the exact procedure, but you get the idea.

[Graham C]

Has anybody actually reported this to the police?

sigh, back to normal

£300 too btw

[Woodsey]

What was the concensus on giving bank details for repayment?

[Graham C]

What was the concensus on giving bank details for repayment?

Was wondering this too, based on previous posts, it appears it's just a standard for stalling for more time.  

If we paid via bank transfer, shouldn't he have these details already?  Not sure what comes across when you do that, does it show the account and sort code when you send money?

[AlunB]

BF have probably benefitted by about 60k from this scam.  Its a horrible nasty story, which brings exchanges and the gambling community into disrepute.  Is it any wonder why countries like Holland ban BF from operating there, after money-laundering regulations are treated as a bit of a joke?

Hi Ed, hope you are good mate. I'm not getting involved on the bulk of the argument, I just thought this comment was a bit misleading. Holland have a ridiculously striictly enforced government gambling monopoly. Everyone is banned there including Ladbrokes. http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/world/ladbrokes+loses+dutch+betting+case/3667672

Interested to hear about what you are up to if you want to drop me a line.

Alun

[d.c.]

The advantage he has over you atm is none of you know what steps are being taken by everyone else and meanwhile he gets
to stall a bit more.

If you could set up a private thread which only "investors" could access, then that would be a good way of sharing information
without busybodies such as myself interrupting. I still think talking to his family and/or parents is the best way to progress this
in the short term. Make them aware of what has happened, I'm sure they have only heard one side and you can imagine the
kind of bs that would involve. They may be quite keen to set up a dialogue and that may lead to repayment if you agree not to
press charges. Collectively, you need to work out what your goal is in all this, punishment or reimbursement? I think its unlikely
you will get both.

[Matt50]

I decided to send Blatchly as e-mail when he last posted, firstly to tell him what i thought of him, but also to see if he would be true to his word and e-mail me back about repayment plans!!
3 days on i have not received an e-mail back.  I have also been removed as a 'friend' on Facebook and i was not one of the people to receive the PM that he was sending out!

Despite the WSOP staking money i also gave Blatchly some other money (a lot more) for something else and asked him about this in the e-mail. 
I do not believe a word he says anymore, but was hoping he may have paid me the curtosy of replying to my e-mail.
I will certainly not be providing him with my bank account details.

[pokernutz]

i thought i would let peeps now on this forum that i was in touch with blacth over the last few days as he owed allot of money to some investor's i know .......

then at 630 last night there was a knock at my door ...(hum mm who could this be i thought)  

there was a lovely looking lady and gent standing there..( thought they may have wanted group sex lol)

but no you got it peeps our local hero,s the C.I.D come to ask a few questions about somebody reportedly threatening Neil and his family (all lies not once had he been threatened just would he meet up and have a cup of tea and a scone with them ) they  then confirmed that he had not mentioned he had ripped people of thousands of pounds to pay for a Jekyll and Hyde life style.
fucking more like{ i wont to be  Neil channing  } Neil the sumbag blach burn in hell  did say that there was an incident regarding a  betfair account  ......................  so i had no choice but to put our friends in the whole picture they couldn't believe what they where hearing and are going to investigate further
 they have given me contact information to give to investors to get in touch
 i cannot give this out on the forums but if any investors would like the number please pm and i shall pass this information on to you


So Just like to say to Neil if he reads this you are lower than a pedophile in my eyes and i make you a promise that i shall help you every way i can lets start by going to the socail security about you have been signing on for the  2+ years  every second Monday at 2.30 Newark street job centre how do i know this because i used to be there at the same time remember sitting there laughing about the 65 a week plus rent they pay you and yes folk's i am talking he was there 4 Mondays ago . and has for the money he was playing snooker last Thursday with about £5000 in his pocket still acting like Neil channing

thanks for taking the time to read this    

[TightEnd]

Marvellous

Mr Pokernutz I won't delete your post, despite the language, as it contains some information I am sure investors will want to know

[DaveShoelace]

Rich, I think this thread should only be open to people who sign up to DTD Online via your affiliate links, you'll be minted.