Manchester United, that didn't last long. Seven up

[david3103]

there isn't much creativity in that side considering all the money that's been spent.

You could say the same about Liverpool Keith.

Oh I disagree with this David.

Plenty of creativity in the Liverpool squad (Coutinho, Lallana, Firmino, Allen) just seems like Brendan can't work out the best way to turn the talent in the squad into a decent team.

 

I think you could say the same about United Keith. There are creative players there, *(Depay, Rooney, Herrera, Mata) but the LVG philosophy appears to stifle much of it.

*an equivalence of talent in my view, but am prepared to debate it.

I wouldn't call Depay, Rooney or Herrera particularly creative.

They are all excellent players when they are on form obviously, but they are unlikely to play the killer ball players like Scholes or Giggs used to.

It would be nice to have some more forward passes, they dont even have to be killer!

Precious few players can play the killer passes that Scholes did in his prime, and beyond his prime too.
I think Keith is being a little mischievous here since none of the LFC players mentioned offer anything more than being 'excellent players when they are on form'.

United are, I think/hope, a lot closer to having everything clock into place than LFC though.

[mulhuzz]

I said at the time Basti was 2years past his pomp.

Convinced Depay will come good though.

Pardon the comparison but is LvG trying to 'walk it in' like a certain Frenchman who resides in North London?

[George2Loose]

I just feel like the team lacks a killer instinct. Under Fergie's reign once we were 1-0 up it was basically game over.

Now when we're leading teams always feel like they're still in it. There's a definite vulnerability which is surprising seeing as we've bought so many defensive minded midfielders.

Finally I still don't think LVG knows his best 11 esp in midfield.

[Cf]

Are United fans happy with LVG or with hindsight would you have preferred to see Moyes given more of a crack at it? Would the spending still have been as ridiculous as it has been?

[nirvana]

Are United fans happy with LVG or with hindsight would you have preferred to see Moyes given more of a crack at it? Would the spending still have been as ridiculous as it has been?

Really don't think he's achieved anything above expectation for 20 years, probably underachieved and vastly over-rated imo. Saying philosophy a few times won't change the Emperor's new clothes feeling I have with him. Just an old arrogant man with a bad hair day

[George2Loose]

He's definitely an improvement on Moyes but I guess it's tough to answer that because Moyes wasn't given time.

LVG's has been given longer I suspect because of his better handling of the media and his past achievements and also cos he followed Moyes and not Fergie.

[TightEnd]

He's definitely an improvement on Moyes but I guess it's tough to answer that because Moyes wasn't given time.

wouldn't LVG have been in the same boat as Moyes as the first manager after SAF?

almost impossible job, whoever did it..in large part because the dressing room didn't go with the new manager. They bear more blame for the poor transition than Moyes imo, though that probably is an unfashionable perception

[George2Loose]

Yes he would've although I think a huge thing that counted against Moyes was that he hadn't won anything of note whereas at least LVG has won the league on more than one occasion

[anthonyl]

How much has his net spend been since taking over from moyes?

[tikay]

He's definitely an improvement on Moyes but I guess it's tough to answer that because Moyes wasn't given time.

LVG's has been given longer I suspect because of his better handling of the media and his past achievements and also cos he followed Moyes and not Fergie.

He's slipping in that department now, in my view. He's getting very defensive & prickly with the press, which, given how things have gone under his tenure (not as well as hoped) is not ideal. Once the Press really get on your case, you add one more problem to the pile, as they just chip away at confidence & the sentiment goes viral. He needs to do a bit of cooey-wooey with them, have a Media Golf Day or whatever, give them some one on one exclusives. It's part of being a Manager, I'd say.

FWIW, I don't dislike him at all, but something about him does not quite seem to fit with a club of your stature. I hope he succeeds though. Even for us neutrals, we want to see the "old" Man U, riding high, with other clubs in awe of them.

How long since Man U have been better than Man C? Couple of years, maybe? That's not the natural order of things at all.

[david3103]

How long since Man U have been better than Man C? Couple of years, maybe? That's not the natural order of things at all.

'The natural order of things' would suggest that United have always been more successful than City. This is not the case. It just feels that way because the SAF years were so good, and recent.
Football predates the Premier League as you well know, and post Busby it took a long seaRch for a manager who could win more than just the FA Cup.

If Moyes was the McGuiness/ O'Farrel of his time, then maybe LVG is Tommy Docherty?

We have to get through the Sexton and Atkinson years too.


Btw, this is only the third season since we last won the league. Some other clubs with proud history have waited a lot longer than that...

[George2Loose]

When I talk about LVG's handling of the media I mean in comparison to Moyes.

Moyes was extremely negative and even said that Liverpool were favourites when we played them at home- whether that was true or not it isn't something a Man United manager should be saying.

As for Man City being ahead of United I think it's something we perhaps have to get used to. Their owners have laid down a real marker with the spending they've done this year as well as the facilities they've built. Nothing lasts forever. We have a tremendous number of years at the top. It's tougher not than ever at the top. Those who actually support United will be pragmatic rather than those who demand success.

[Marky147]

When I talk about LVG's handling of the media I mean in comparison to Moyes.

Moyes was extremely negative and even said that Liverpool were favourites when we played them at home- whether that was true or not it isn't something a Man United manager should be saying.

As for Man City being ahead of United I think it's something we perhaps have to get used to. Their owners have laid down a real marker with the spending they've done this year as well as the facilities they've built. Nothing lasts forever. We have a tremendous number of years at the top. It's tougher not than ever at the top. Those who actually support United will be pragmatic rather than those who demand success.

We had a good run, and definitely better than I can foresee anyone else having in our lifetime.

[Archer]

He's definitely an improvement on Moyes but I guess it's tough to answer that because Moyes wasn't given time.

LVG's has been given longer I suspect because of his better handling of the media and his past achievements and also cos he followed Moyes and not Fergie.

He's slipping in that department now, in my view. He's getting very defensive & prickly with the press, which, given how things have gone under his tenure (not as well as hoped) is not ideal. Once the Press really get on your case, you add one more problem to the pile, as they just chip away at confidence & the sentiment goes viral. He needs to do a bit of cooey-wooey with them, have a Media Golf Day or whatever, give them some one on one exclusives. It's part of being a Manager, I'd say.

FWIW, I don't dislike him at all, but something about him does not quite seem to fit with a club of your stature. I hope he succeeds though. Even for us neutrals, we want to see the "old" Man U, riding high, with other clubs in awe of them.

How long since Man U have been better than Man C? Couple of years, maybe? That's not the natural order of things at all.

I'll put an exact date on it, 16th April 2011, when City beat United in the FA Cup semi-final and went on to win their first bit of silverware since the money came in. We effectively reached United's level on that date and stopped them  winning the double in 2010/2011.  In the 8 league derby  games since then City have  won 6 and United 2.  Last 4 seasons  it's 2 league titles and 1 league cup for City compared to their 1 league title in Ferguson's last year.

I hope and expect City to win the league again this season and extend their recent success. But this is sport. Only 5 months ago United beat City to go 4 points clear in the league with just 6 games to go. City turned that round with a 13 point swing in those 6 games. Things change in relatively short periods of time - Chelsea are a great example this season when they were odds on favourite to win the league just 6 weeks ago.

As far as the big long-term picture is concerned, United are the ultimate cash cow and  aren't going anywhere and I for one look forward to a healthy and ongoing competitive rivalry.
City have moved ahead now and are in a very strong position

[tikay]

Your new lad has an old head on young shoulders when in front of goal, cool as a cucumber.