Live feeds and hole cards: Ethics and considerations

[Woodsey]

I give up lol

You couldn't use phone at table!

Don't know who commentated but the commentators were locked in the only room where the actual live feed was surrounded by the 3 man production crew!

but what's to stop one of the production crew texting someone on the rail who signals to a player who's been stalling over a difficult decision? with the amount of money at stake I think anyone having access to a live feed with holecards is really dangerous. surely the commentary can be done as it's aired rather than live

why would the production crew do this? it's their reputation at stake, hey i tried to get a peek at the back room and trust me no one was getting in there! and there was no way to watch the stream at dtd.

I was watching briefly on my I-pad

[MANTIS01]

surely any one with a rail of half decent poker players, observing when not streamed
would have a slight advantage if he was getting  decent feed bad during breaks cant see any one accusing them of cheating



the more interesting point is showing hole cards and length of delay

and how it may or may not effect your play  with these circumstances

No because without all the info you've just got a bunch of your mates with their own opinions and guesses. Knowing the facts is much different I think.

[gatso]

I give up lol

You couldn't use phone at table!

Don't know who commentated but the commentators were locked in the only room where the actual live feed was surrounded by the 3 man production crew!

but what's to stop one of the production crew texting someone on the rail who signals to a player who's been stalling over a difficult decision? with the amount of money at stake I think anyone having access to a live feed with holecards is really dangerous. surely the commentary can be done as it's aired rather than live

why would the production crew do this? it's their reputation at stake, hey i tried to get a peek at the back room and trust me no one was getting in there! and there was no way to watch the stream at dtd.

I was watching briefly on my I-pad

not live you weren't

I'm talking about the people with live access- commentators and techs

[Boba Fett]

And what if somebody is proper tilted because they think you bluffed them out of big pot? Rather than have to deal with those tilt emotions for the remainder of the game about 20 mins later they get the info that they made a fantastic fold and continue with the game now super confident. It's just fecking with poker every which way.

What if blah blah blah.  What if the exact opposite happened.  What if you bluffed someone out of a big pot and they folded and were convinced they were beat and 30 mins later someone tells them it was a bluff and it causes them to go on monkey tilt??

I cant think of a situation that could arise through streaming where the opposite could not occur or that only 1 person could benefit from but the rest couldnt.  It changes the playing field, but it doesnt create an imbalance.

PS and where did 20 minutes come from?  Its on a 30 minute delay plus the time it takes to get away from the tv table to check phone, Im not convinced anyone has a friend on the rail/watching at home that can see 10 mins into the future

[Woodsey]

I give up lol

You couldn't use phone at table!

Don't know who commentated but the commentators were locked in the only room where the actual live feed was surrounded by the 3 man production crew!

but what's to stop one of the production crew texting someone on the rail who signals to a player who's been stalling over a difficult decision? with the amount of money at stake I think anyone having access to a live feed with holecards is really dangerous. surely the commentary can be done as it's aired rather than live

why would the production crew do this? it's their reputation at stake, hey i tried to get a peek at the back room and trust me no one was getting in there! and there was no way to watch the stream at dtd.

I was watching briefly on my I-pad

not live you weren't

I'm talking about the people with live access- commentators and techs

Yeah with the 30 min delay obv.......

[MANTIS01]

And what if somebody is proper tilted because they think you bluffed them out of big pot? Rather than have to deal with those tilt emotions for the remainder of the game about 20 mins later they get the info that they made a fantastic fold and continue with the game now super confident. It's just fecking with poker every which way.

What if blah blah blah.  What if the exact opposite happened.  What if you bluffed someone out of a big pot and they folded and were convinced they were beat and 30 mins later someone tells them it was a bluff and it causes them to go on monkey tilt??

I cant think of a situation that could arise through streaming where the opposite could not occur or that only 1 person could benefit from but the rest couldnt.  It changes the playing field, but it doesnt create an imbalance.

Yeah I don't think you get it bud. People outside of the game are introducing additional info into the game that you don't know yourself as a player in that game. Considering I always learnt from the start that poker is a game of incomplete info and it's your job to complete the picture I think that's quite a big deal. Those few examples I rattled off were just for giggles. But you are right. Both my example and your example demonstrate how a normal game could completely change course due to that additional info being introduced.

[Boba Fett]

And what if somebody is proper tilted because they think you bluffed them out of big pot? Rather than have to deal with those tilt emotions for the remainder of the game about 20 mins later they get the info that they made a fantastic fold and continue with the game now super confident. It's just fecking with poker every which way.

What if blah blah blah.  What if the exact opposite happened.  What if you bluffed someone out of a big pot and they folded and were convinced they were beat and 30 mins later someone tells them it was a bluff and it causes them to go on monkey tilt??

I cant think of a situation that could arise through streaming where the opposite could not occur or that only 1 person could benefit from but the rest couldnt.  It changes the playing field, but it doesnt create an imbalance.

Yeah I don't think you get it bud. People outside of the game are introducing additional info into the game that you don't know yourself as a player in that game. Considering I always learnt from the start that poker is a game of incomplete info and it's your job to complete the picture I think that's quite a big deal. Those few examples I rattled off were just for giggles. But you are right. Both my example and your example demonstrate how a normal game could completely change course due to that additional info being introduced.

This happens beyond a live stream anyway bud.  Coming back for the final table do you think the players werent hendon mobbing the other players? Searching online for any info on them, asking friends about how some people played.  Would you also ban all of this because someone might not have internet access the night before the FT and dont have as many friends in poker to provide them with as many notes on the other players as possible?

The extra information provided by the stream is the same for everyone and is available to everyone.  Just because 1 player might be able to gather and use this info better than another doesnt mean it shouldnt be allowed at all.

[GreekStein]

Cliffs:

LeKnave bangs grannies.

[MANTIS01]

And what if somebody is proper tilted because they think you bluffed them out of big pot? Rather than have to deal with those tilt emotions for the remainder of the game about 20 mins later they get the info that they made a fantastic fold and continue with the game now super confident. It's just fecking with poker every which way.

What if blah blah blah.  What if the exact opposite happened.  What if you bluffed someone out of a big pot and they folded and were convinced they were beat and 30 mins later someone tells them it was a bluff and it causes them to go on monkey tilt??

I cant think of a situation that could arise through streaming where the opposite could not occur or that only 1 person could benefit from but the rest couldnt.  It changes the playing field, but it doesnt create an imbalance.

Yeah I don't think you get it bud. People outside of the game are introducing additional info into the game that you don't know yourself as a player in that game. Considering I always learnt from the start that poker is a game of incomplete info and it's your job to complete the picture I think that's quite a big deal. Those few examples I rattled off were just for giggles. But you are right. Both my example and your example demonstrate how a normal game could completely change course due to that additional info being introduced.

This happens beyond a live stream anyway bud.  Coming back for the final table do you think the players werent hendon mobbing the other players? Searching online for any info on them, asking friends about how some people played.  Would you also ban all of this because someone might not have internet access the night before the FT and dont have as many friends in poker to provide them with as many notes on the other players as possible?

The extra information provided by the stream is the same for everyone and is available to everyone.  Just because 1 player might be able to gather and use this info better than another doesnt mean it shouldnt be allowed at all.

I don't think it's ok that your access to bonus in-game info is dependant upon the quality of your external sources. A good coach on the sideline gives you an advantage and this isn't a team event. Also I don't care that you know what I did in past games I just don't want you to know what I'm doing in this game.

[LeKnave]

Think LeKnave has come across really badly in this thread

Seems like the sort of lad who would bang an old granny given the oppourtunity

FYP

He's not denying it then, takes after his boy Rooney

pussys pussy

[BAM]

M
E
H

You kids got nothing better to get excited about?

Very well played Alex btw

[cambridgealex]

Sometime whilst during the live stream of the DTD Monte Carlo 250K guaranteed I decided to some research on the players left in.... and then I came across this, low and behold, on that wonderful place called 'twitter' ...
 Quote " Watch the stream and text me all significant hands / tendancies etc pls! Ty xxx "

 http://twitter.com/#!/cambridgealex

 Now to me .... Isn't poker about getting YOUR OWN READS on the opposition you're playing?

 I don't know what anyone else thinks of this but I see it as collusion. So you sir ...ARE A COWARD, and to another extent...A CHEAT....

 And if this post gets Deleted then I know you all accept cheating as part of the new game.......

This didn't really piss me off at all at first. I was over the moon at the win and just thought, meh what a load of shit, I obv did nothing wrong, glad everyone agrees.

But this morning my housemates could've done a shit on my chest whilst I was asleep and it wouldnt've pissed me off.

Now I'm not so euphoric I can respond.

9ballCP - you are a massive cock. Go die in a grease fire.

Kthxbye.

[SuuPRlim]

9ballCP hasn't gpt $137k in live winnings therefore no-one cares
Alex is accepting people to shit on his chest now he has won £77bean
Dubai doesn't like hole cards on live feeds
LeKnave fucks old women and the brags about it on public forums.

wp OP you;ve really got this one through

[9ballCP]

 May I thank all those who have responded to my post, and yes many of you may not like it or its tone but I'm glad the controversial nature of this has been discussed, albeit it rather brief and somewhat misguided.
 Secondly, may I add that who I may be, what I have achieved in life , be it on or off the felt, whether I played in this tournament or not, or even if I like the colour blue has no bearing on the reason behind my post. Also it would benefit no one on this forum if I were to reveal my name as I am not acquainted/associated with anyone on here, I'm just part time player with a love for the game.
 My post was intended to get players and the community alike to address such issues as this, as I feel it's a detriment to the game that we all call ‘poker’.
 As stated in my first post I thought the game of poker was about SITUATIONS and the information and conclusions YOU YOURSELF extract from what YOUR opponents are feeding (or not) YOU.
  I for one am saddened by the fact that many people on here "would do the same thing", is this the new game of poker?? where NOT only are you playing your opponents but  ‘Team X’ is too?
 I am all for research on players before any tournament, but, I believe the information from past tournaments can only give you a general idea of the players you are up against. How do you know what MOOD your opponent is in today without getting on the felt with them?? In the end we're all human and free will rules, so however 'player X' played in one tournament doesn't equate to 'player X' playing every single tournament the same way, after all, poker is about SITUATIONS..
  The difference lies here, the information you're receiving from someone watching a live feed (be it time delayed or not) is that YOU get to know EXACTLY how your OPPONENT is playing and that you can always make that crucial fold knowing that you will be privy to that information later, in days gone by you had to PAY TO SEE or forever question yourself if you made the correct play, which as we all know can be a major turning point in any players tournament. (and very few players will change up their style within the half hour or so unless a major development takes place)
  I certainly don't want to see streaming stopped, I'd personally not rather see hole cards myself but what will be will be..
 And now to my real issue…
 Alex.. I'm not disputing the fact that you played well, not at all, may I congratulate you on your win and well played. My major issue is that you INTENTIONALLY set out exploit the fact it was being streamed. Whether you cheated or not, YOU still had the mentality to PREMEDITATE COLLUSION. The sad fact is you did it out in the open for the world to see via twitter...Well, barring some of your friends it seems..... Epic fail dude..
Thus you have my point of discussion… Where does a player draw the line?? Do we employ every exploit and trick in the book, e-book and non books there is to win?? or do we try promote the game as a SPORTING GENTLEMAN’S game and try assure those who want to join the poker community that it's not full of cheats and scam artists? After all, the money at stake is there to be won by the players participating who paid entry to play, no one else…  TY and GL all

[kinboshi]

Sorry Mr OP, where did he 'cheat'?

That's what you accused him of doing.  Are you going to retract that false accusation?