Live feeds and hole cards: Ethics and considerations

[Longines]

Nope, didn't think it would be necessary as under what rule could I give them a penalty?

I wouldn't have felt able to refuse given that - IMO - the TD has carte blanche to penalise players as they see fit. The fact that it was felt neccesary to have signs up warning that hole card cameras were going to be in use reinforces the view that opting out was not an option.

[Cf]

If I sit down and am asked to put my cards over the camera then I assume I haven't got any choice in the matter and I have to do it.

If I sit down and it's made clear that it's optional then I of course don't put my cards over the camera.

Hole cards on TV shows = good
Hole cards on live stream = very bad obviously

[mondatoo]

If I sit down and am asked to put my cards over the camera then I assume I haven't got any choice in the matter and I have to do it.

If I sit down and it's made clear that it's optional then I of course don't put my cards over the camera.

Hole cards on TV shows = good
Hole cards on live stream = very bad obviously

It wasn't optional at WSOP as the french guy in the main whinged that he wasn't going to and they said he'd get a penalty if he didn't.

Also, LOLz at OP, wpwp.

[dik9]

I am a TD my priority is the tournament, I don't organise or have anything to do with any companies decision to explore different areas of media. The media, however it is used is a secondary to the tournament. I do not have any power to control what the media want unless it interferes with the tournament. If they ask something and it is possible I will try and accommodate as long as it doesn't interfere. I have seen events where the media actually seem to run the tournament and what they say goes. IMO if a player does not wish his cards exposed then this should not be forced on to the player. However this was advertised as seeing live hole cards, so the players should already be aware of this. I say again though I will not/ would not penalise a players for not showing losing hole cards. AFAI am concerned,  technology in poker is all experimental and yes something's need to be discussed as to not infringe on the actual game. What those boundaries are need to be debated.

[PizzicatoXev]

This didn't really piss me off at all at first. I was over the moon at the win and just thought, meh what a load of shit, I obv did nothing wrong, glad everyone agrees.

But this morning my housemates could've done a shit on my chest whilst I was asleep and it wouldnt've pissed me off.

Now I'm not so euphoric I can respond.

9ballCP - you are a massive cock. Go die in a grease fire.

Kthxbye.

Needs love imo

[SuuPRlim]

9ballllllllllllllllll
corner pocket.

you've come across like a dick. no offence

[George2Loose]

Some good points being raised now. I would wager that if I refused to show hole cards and that was deemed ok every single other player would snap refuse to do so as well. They don't want me having an advantage see? The reason people appeared happy was a) because it's a new thing to have down your local bricks and mortar so these issues haven't been explored properly b) People happy to make ft and more focussed on the $$ and the game not factors they can't control c) People thinking it's a level playing field cos all cards exposed. Yet afterwards when things are digested people can easily think wait a sec I went to Notts on my jack jones and that put me at a big disadvantage. So rather than say peeps were happy and no probs last time what do you think about next time?

Maybe dtd will make it clear next time that you have to show hole cards? Pretty sure Eric Seidel who hated show his cards, and still does, was made to show them to the camera.

[smashedagain]

Alex is no cheat for sure and chinese Frankie went out of his way to phone me this afternoon. First he complained he never had a piece of Alex and then told me all the feature table people were doing the same thing.

So how many of you guys would openly post on twitter / face book " Watch the stream and text me all significant hands / tendancies etc pls! Ty xxx ". Not saying i would not have sort advice about how players were playing but to do it in such an open/public manner is a bit naive to say the least.


The blog sponsor was the only person to respond to Alex's request and must have thought it a little out of order.
"No.That will stop streaming! Good luck, you won't need extra info.This time it's you."

Fair play to Alex as in the name of transparency he has left this on twitter for all to see, and if i can find it with all my skills then am pretty sure everyone else can see.

Alex is a winner and it is a sad state of affairs that winners have to deal with this sort of crap and any valid points 9ballcp may have are lost in the bullshit  in the majority  of the post.

And by the way i'm the Troll round here

[cambridgealex]

To be honest I didn't like playing on the feature table and did tell Kev that I'd prefer not to (end of day two when he was TD not Rich).

I wasn't warned about any of the rules and procedures that went with it. It was only through rumours and hearsay that I knew hole cards were being streamed live with a 30 minute delay. I arrived at the table, looked at my cards and started thinking about what I was going to do. Then the dealer Pam (clearly getting instructions in her earpiece) says "Alex can you put your cards in the box", I comply. After a few seconds of thought "Can you separate the cards so there's a gap". It immediately flustered and annoyed me.

When another player got moved to the table, he raised his first hand, and during the hand was asked to give his name and chip count. At that stage of the tournament, I don't want to be answering any questions in the middle of a hand. The game was slowed down so much by all the little things that came with the TV production. Asking players to move their chips into specific positions, moving seats after a few emilinations, it's all just annoyed. Meanwhile on the other table they were getting far more hands in.

None of this is DTDs fault, it is the fault of the seemingly amateur production team.

Wrt the hole cards issue, I'd rather not share the info, but I think I'd take advantage and use the info better than my opponents so I don't mind too much. By that, I mean that as OP stated, I sort to gain all the possible info on my opponents and make adjustment accordingly.

Also, I think the exposure it gives for poker is GREAT. My family for instance loved watching it and I'm sure having the cards exposed added to that. It added to the experience massively for them. It's just not appealing for a lot of people to watch a stream without hole cards. The people it is appealing to, like George and some others who said they like it, are already into poker anyway.

[cambridgealex]

Jase I did it in an open and public manner because to not do so implies that I'm being underhand. I knew the rules and knew I wasn't breaking them. Once we were told no phones at the feature table. I complied and did not use it once, so didn't get any info anyway.

[smashedagain]

Jase I did it in an open and public manner because to not do so implies that I'm being underhand. I knew the rules and knew I wasn't breaking them. Once we were told no phones at the feature table. I complied and did not use it once, so didn't get any info anyway.

i know this mate. Welcome to the world of a winners abuse (have you been nipped yet).

Whilst on the subject whilst at the 2009 wsop main event we had started the day and the feature table contained a chip stack that was not seated. An hour later mr Phil Ivey turns up and says he has been up playing cash most of the night and does not want to play the feature table. obv this annoys a few of the players already seated so he offers them their buy in back (and possibly a small%age of his winnings) and the whole table snap accepts. The tv production crew insists that he must play the tv table. "The hell i do " says Ivey and sure enough they bring in another table to be the feature table.

[h]

Can I just point out, players were requested to put their hole cards in a marked box on the table so that the cameras could view. Everyone seemed happy to do so, no one objected ..... Just seems the people pissed with it are the people that were watching??

h, seems to be the only person with doubts that actually played on the feature table and I hope I have reassured him with the questions he wanted answers too.

i didn't have doubts might be my post was worded badly sorry
to be clear i would happly play on a streamed table again
i wasn't concerned at the time
just think its worth a debate
it does bring another level into play if your aware that 30 mins later your hole cards and actions are seen by others
however i think its just another thing to factor in and think about the question for me is how i or others might  play differently
for info i don't think it affect the way i played
i think its unfortunate this thread was started in the manner it was as its interesting seeing others views on streaming 

[boldie]

Jase I did it in an open and public manner because to not do so implies that I'm being underhand. I knew the rules and knew I wasn't breaking them. Once we were told no phones at the feature table. I complied and did not use it once, so didn't get any info anyway.

i know this mate. Welcome to the world of a winners abuse (have you been nipped yet).

Whilst on the subject whilst at the 2009 wsop main event we had started the day and the feature table contained a chip stack that was not seated. An hour later mr Phil Ivey turns up and says he has been up playing cash most of the night and does not want to play the feature table. obv this annoys a few of the players already seated so he offers them their buy in back (and possibly a small%age of his winnings) and the whole table snap accepts. The tv production crew insists that he must play the tv table. "The hell i do " says Ivey and sure enough they bring in another table to be the feature table.

That sure would have happened if it had been you that said that and not the Nr1 man in poker.

[smashedagain]

Jase I did it in an open and public manner because to not do so implies that I'm being underhand. I knew the rules and knew I wasn't breaking them. Once we were told no phones at the feature table. I complied and did not use it once, so didn't get any info anyway.

i know this mate. Welcome to the world of a winners abuse (have you been nipped yet).

Whilst on the subject whilst at the 2009 wsop main event we had started the day and the feature table contained a chip stack that was not seated. An hour later mr Phil Ivey turns up and says he has been up playing cash most of the night and does not want to play the feature table. obv this annoys a few of the players already seated so he offers them their buy in back (and possibly a small%age of his winnings) and the whole table snap accepts. The tv production crew insists that he must play the tv table. "The hell i do " says Ivey and sure enough they bring in another table to be the feature table.

That sure would have happened if it had been you that said that and not the Nr1 man in poker.

yes you are probably right but going one step further from Dubais thinking what would happed if at dtd we refused to play on the feature table. probably get anted away

[ ] everyone knows i would want to shy away from the spot light

[JK]

Some really good points have come from an otherwise ridiculous post. This is why I prefer blonde to some other forums tbh