Independence Referendum

[TightEnd]

Arb, you've been trolling KMac for days probably longer, you admitted as much last night.

For someone who has such a high opinion of himself your lack of understanding on this subject is quite staggering but then with with your total lack of self awareness you won't recognise that Rod has been running rings around you for days so you channel that into trolling KMac.

So all these business leaders/former PM's/bank CEO's have been misquoted by the DM or are they totally clueless/trolls as well?  All i have said today is what these people have been quoted as saying i have put no opinion myself in.  I am happy to listen to former PM/Chancellor's opinion on the real issues and ask people who support the yes vote what their views on these quotes are?

Blah blah blah.  There you go again. 

but there is nothing wrong with his post. its factually accurate, the articles gives direct quotes from the people he says it does.

this is quite baffling.

[OverTheBorder]

I have to say I don't see that there is any trolling on this thread.  The Yes point of view is put forward passionately, so I don't see why this can't be questioned by others without it being trolling?

It's a spicey thread, but it's currently one of the best and most interesting ones on Blonde imo.  I've learned a lot anyway.

Fully agree with that. You have people quoting all sources that suit themselves as facts whilst calling anything else as fiction, propoganda, dark arts, pish or something like that. Despite the writer likely being 100 times more qualified on the subject than the poster.

It almost needs challenged and trolled to stop people mistaking passion and conviction for facts.

I am at this on multiple levels all day, will be glad when it is over.

[Kmac84]

Arb, you've been trolling KMac for days probably longer, you admitted as much last night.

For someone who has such a high opinion of himself your lack of understanding on this subject is quite staggering but then with with your total lack of self awareness you won't recognise that Rod has been running rings around you for days so you channel that into trolling KMac.

So all these business leaders/former PM's/bank CEO's have been misquoted by the DM or are they totally clueless/trolls as well?  All i have said today is what these people have been quoted as saying i have put no opinion myself in.  I am happy to listen to former PM/Chancellor's opinion on the real issues and ask people who support the yes vote what their views on these quotes are?

Blah blah blah.  There you go again. 

but there is nothing wrong with his post. its factually accurate, the articles gives direct quotes from the people he says it does.

this is quite baffling.

Trying showing some impartiality, its a key attribute for a moderator.

[maccol]

New level of troling by arboy, its nae wonder you can't get one of those 25k a year loltrader jobs.  You can't placy nicely with ther others tards. 

Seriously KMac you are doing neither you or your cause any favours with stuff like that.

Ok sorry, dad. 

Funnily enough, you do come over like an over-excited child.

And your a quisling.  But hey ho.

Because I happen to disagree with your viewpoint?

[horseplayer]

Seems ok to disagree with the yes posters but not so much the no posters?

[Marty719]

New level of troling by arboy, its nae wonder you can't get one of those 25k a year loltrader jobs.  You can't placy nicely with ther others tards. 

Seriously KMac you are doing neither you or your cause any favours with stuff like that.

Ok sorry, dad. 

Funnily enough, you do come over like an over-excited child.

And your a quisling.  But hey ho.

I was very much in favour of YES from day 1, but I have to say KMac, you are going the right way to putting anyone off.  He who shouts the loudest, does not always win, despite what you seem to think.  You need to reread this thread, and take a look at the petty, immature way you come across.  Don't assume people who disagree with you are automatically wrong.

Anyway...I'm from Belfast, and this is obviously causing quite a few debates on this side as well.  This is the view of Blacks Mountain from the motorway...

[TightEnd]

Arb, you've been trolling KMac for days probably longer, you admitted as much last night.

For someone who has such a high opinion of himself your lack of understanding on this subject is quite staggering but then with with your total lack of self awareness you won't recognise that Rod has been running rings around you for days so you channel that into trolling KMac.

So all these business leaders/former PM's/bank CEO's have been misquoted by the DM or are they totally clueless/trolls as well?  All i have said today is what these people have been quoted as saying i have put no opinion myself in.  I am happy to listen to former PM/Chancellor's opinion on the real issues and ask people who support the yes vote what their views on these quotes are?

Blah blah blah.  There you go again. 

but there is nothing wrong with his post. its factually accurate, the articles gives direct quotes from the people he says it does.

this is quite baffling.

Trying showing some impartiality, its a key attribute for a moderator.

i am giving my opinion

arbboy is a pain in the arse, for sure, but you are calling him out for nothing

resorting to insults is what i am going to be moderating, and there's only one person dishing them out.

Rod, to name one poster, and I have known each other ten years and have rarely agreed on anything in the political sphere but bar the odd tiff have never fallen out. That's because we don't fall to the level of insults and name calling

if you could do the same, i am sure everyone would be very grateful

[redarmi]

It is indeed hard to believe that there is no credible plan ahead of the vote.

It should have been stated clearly what the plan was (with Westminster approval) both in terms of currency, assets and debt.   At that point the voters can decide.  I'm pretty sure this would have given some of the "no" voters the confidence to vote differently as well.

What rational person would risk the value of their house/savings/pensions etc etc by voting yes with so little upside yet so much potential downside when such fundamental policies are not cast in stone before the vote?  Just makes no sense at all.  Maybe the value of Tennant's super is more important than these issues to the yes crew!

I know you find it hard to believe mark but there is more to life(and this vote) than economics and money.  Self determination is very important and not everybody wants things like the lowest taxes, they value things like education, healthcare  and community and given independence they will be able to determine those priorities for themselves democratically rather than be lumped in with a country which, for a large part votes for parties that are eroding all of those things on a daily basis.

[TightEnd]

Seems ok to disagree with the yes posters but not so much the no posters?

anyone can disagree with anyone, and that doesn't mean its trolling

strong feelings on both sides, passionate views. As much from a Yes voter in Glasgow as an Englishman in the home counties proud of the Union

no insults, name calling from anyone please, thats all that is being asked

[doubleup]

All this nonsense of politicians offering sweetners is very annoying, and undemocratic for the rest of us if you ask me.

It should be

A) Have independence - good luck guys hope it works out for you
B) Stay and get treated the same as everyone else in the UK

Bribing the Scots to stay sums up the woeful quality of our politicians in Westminster.

Its just way more complex than that though

MPs representing the rest of the UK in Westminster and working for the Better Together campaign are doing so because their constituents want to keep the union together. I'm not going to find a direct source but if I recall correctly, the polls from rUK were 65-70% in favour of keeping the union. The rUK public wants Scotland to stay so our politicians can't just say 'meh, gl if you pull the trigger' when millions of people in their constituencies will feel the effects of a split in one way or another.

The idea that we're trying to 'bribe' Scotland to stay assumes that the scots were getting a 100% fair deal before and anything else would be unfair on the rest of the union. There are so many conflicting numbers I don't think anyone has a hope in hell of REALLY knowing whether independence is going to be of net benefit to them, but given the swirling maelstrom of numbers I think it would be very presumptuous to assume that Scotland was already getting a great deal and that anything extra is automatically a 'bribe'.

I think it is simple.  London runs a surplus and would be very wealthy if it were an independent country.  But we accept that the North needs to be funded as we are in it together so we contribute far higher tax than the rest of the country.  If Scotland wants to be in the Union then it should do the same.  They may be net contributors like London, but if you want to be part of the Union that is the price you pay. If they are offered anything else which the rest of the country is not, then it is indeed a bribe in my opinion.  We're either in it together, or we're not.

Where do you think London makes its money from?  They manufacture fck all, they grow fck all, and they have no natural resources.  It's a fucking miracle city.

[horseplayer]

great post Red

Anything that lessens the position of Cameron is a good thing by me after what he has subjected certain sections of society to so far

[arbboy]

It is indeed hard to believe that there is no credible plan ahead of the vote.

It should have been stated clearly what the plan was (with Westminster approval) both in terms of currency, assets and debt.   At that point the voters can decide.  I'm pretty sure this would have given some of the "no" voters the confidence to vote differently as well.

What rational person would risk the value of their house/savings/pensions etc etc by voting yes with so little upside yet so much potential downside when such fundamental policies are not cast in stone before the vote?  Just makes no sense at all.  Maybe the value of Tennant's super is more important than these issues to the yes crew!

I know you find it hard to believe mark but there is more to life(and this vote) than economics and money.  Self determination is very important and not everybody wants things like the lowest taxes, they value things like education, healthcare  and community and given independence they will be able to determine those priorities for themselves democratically rather than be lumped in with a country which, for a large part votes for parties that are eroding all of those things on a daily basis.

I appreciate this but at what price are you willing to risk your personal wealth to get this and the uncertainty it brings?  The Scottish are well known as being more risk averse/tight/canny than your average nation with their money (whether this is just a myth or not that's up for debate elsewhere) so i just find it amazing how they are willing to take such financial risks personally and collectively to get this.  I have no problem if they want to gamble the bank on it good luck to them.

[TightEnd]

great post Red

Anything that lessens the position of Cameron is a good thing by me after what he has subjected certain sections of society to so far

a Yes vote strengthens the position of Cameron. Or might.

41 fewer labour MPs in what otherwise would be looking like another hung parliament could tip the balance

Not a concern of an independent Scotland, but definitely a concern for Labour

So you can understand the self-interest of Milliband and team heading up to the stump...

[Marky147]

Trying showing some impartiality

POTY

[Teacake]

I have to say I don't see that there is any trolling on this thread.  The Yes point of view is put forward passionately, so I don't see why this can't be questioned by others without it being trolling?

It's a spicey thread, but it's currently one of the best and most interesting ones on Blonde imo.  I've learned a lot anyway.

I've no problem with any of that but Arb admitted last night he was trying to wind KMac up and it detracts from the thread.

I think what is really eating him is that despite them both having diametrically opposing views which they are both entitled to, only one of them has any influence on the referendum.
Whatever you think of KMacs views he's getting up off his arse and taking that message to literally hundreds of voters. Arb doesn't even get a vote, he's still obviously entitled to his opinion but it doesn't actually have any direct impact which is why I'm surprised KMac even bothers with him.