The Staking Board, Auctions: Debate

[The Camel]

Dan just run an auction and if you are struggling for bids its pretty easy- u suddenly have an anonymous bidder by pm, Alan buys 5% via facebook, John sent u a 3%  twitter bid or my personal favourite is to leave it late and low and behold a good pal of yours without 300 bids swoops in and sends the price through the roof

Sounds like you're accusing one of me, James or Karl of something Dave? How else are people without blonde accounts or <300 posts supposed to bid on auctions?

Nobody can change the price without paying for it anyway, so if me and a mate were to collude and buy half the action at 1.x to send the price through the roof, we'd still have to pay the higher price.

Tbh, people with less than 300 posts were barred from this board for a reason.

Seems to be circumnavigated at every turn now.

[Dubai]

Yeah obviously idea of hosting an auction on here is that it should be confined to here and rules are 300 posts to buy or sell. If people wanna sell on Facebook, do it there- mixing between the 2 or more doesn't work.

Luckily you have an idea to solve that anyway. So should be thanking me for pointing out the flaws here

[cambridgealex]

Agree.

If only there was a site to host auctions on...

[Dubai]

I nearly hosted a fake auction for main event to trap people into paying more than they ever should by using people to bid the price up- was going to point out at end how easily it's done. But was worried incase went deep in main and it caused a controversy as was never gonna sell in first place and didnt want people claimig action that was obviously cancelled. But trust me, it's so easily done

[smashedagain]

All these nice guys who are saying I want to sell at spot or 1.1 will soon be asking for 1.5 like everyone else. I am a fan of letting the market dictate the price but then again I am wrong about almost everything else so why not this

[cambridgealex]

I nearly hosted a fake auction for main event to trap people into paying more than they ever should by using people to bid the price up- was going to point out at end how easily it's done. But was worried incase went deep in main and it caused a controversy as was never gonna sell in first place and didnt want people claimig action that was obviously cancelled. But trust me, it's so easily done

Yeh I do realise. But Keith honestly did wait until 23.59 to text me and bid for a massive chunk!

[Dubai]

Hence why I said trustworthy honest etc but sets a terrible precedent. Basically you can guarantee never selling a price you don't agree with as you just let a big buyer come in late and then not play or sell elsewhere etx

[neeko]

Surely the greater risk is that the seller will grim the winnings from the buyers or will sell 200% and then take a dive in level one, rather than they bump the price.

The goal cannot me to ensure that the buyers always get the best end of a deal, (sellers price too low and sell out too quick).

Seems to me that buyers are talking their book and not giving the sellers the value they deserve.

(sorry for the thread continued divert)

[Doobs]

Auctions are about sellers NOT squeezing the market for every last cent. They are about letting the market decide what your worth. They let buyers decide what they are willing to pay, and never overcharge them, and they also never miss out because of being 5 seconds too late or whatever.

Actually if you look at the economic theory - draining every cent is exactly what auctions are about. They allow the price to increase until an equilibrium price is reached. This by definition is the highest possible price at which the product will sell out. Therefore it stands to reason that big buyers like Flushy and Rupert do not like auctions. If every thread became an auction and every buyer was happy to use the auction format, prices can only increase. Trying to dress it up as anything else is very misleading imo.

Unfortunately for sellers this concept assumes that buyers are indifferent between buying in an auction format and buying in the standard 'given price' format. If buyers were indifferent between the two formats then it would always be correct for the seller to run an auction format and get the highest possible price. Until recently the auction format hasn't been getting a ton of love so I've steered clear of it but people seem to be slowly warming to the idea so I think the number of auctions will pick up.

As for the problem of good value stuff selling out quickly - thats more of a problem for the seller than the buyers. While its all very nice to have packages snap sell out, to me as an economist that means I've done myself out of a lot of value by pricing myself too low. I've been using the old 'trial and error' method to find my equilibrium prices rather than auctions because I think there is more value in the 'given price' format than the auction format at the present time. Sometimes this will lead to markups being too low and snap selling out (SCOOP & Marbella), sometimes I get them just about right and it sells out steadily (ala 10k heads up) and sometimes its a little high and the action might not shift (ala main event, although this very much remains to be seen). I choose not to take market movements personally and I think having a thick skin is the way to go if you're going to push the boundaries and really try to maximise your EV.

If the seller deliberately maximises their EV then they are deliberately ensuring the buyer minimises their EV?

I could produce a long list of companies who have chosen to maximise their EV in the short term

[outragous76]

Not really kept up with auctions. Have people had non declared reserves on their action

Should they/could they?

Not sure I would ever buy a piece at auction

[DMorgan]

If the seller deliberately maximises their EV then they are deliberately ensuring the buyer minimises their EV?

Yes thats true.

In the past, sellers haven't been too savvy and have been selling themselves short. Buyers got fantastic deals on a regular basis and nobody was any the wiser. Now some of the sellers have got wise and are pricing themselves closer to their true equilibrium price which is signalling a shift on the board. You used to be able to invest in amazing deals every week. Now they're not amazing anymore, they're just good and some buyers don't like it. I've still yet to see a staking thread go up that I didn't think was +EV for investors though.

I could produce a long list of companies who have chosen to maximise their EV in the short term

I'm sure you could, but I doubt any of them or their actions would have any relevance to poker tournament staking.

[pleno1]

Wow dan really?

Never seen a minus ev thread?

[Doobs]

If the seller deliberately maximises their EV then they are deliberately ensuring the buyer minimises their EV?

Yes thats true.

In the past, sellers haven't been too savvy and have been selling themselves short. Buyers got fantastic deals on a regular basis and nobody was any the wiser. Now some of the sellers have got wise and are pricing themselves closer to their true equilibrium price which is signalling a shift on the board. You used to be able to invest in amazing deals every week. Now they're not amazing anymore, they're just good and some buyers don't like it. I've still yet to see a staking thread go up that I didn't think was +EV for investors though.

I could produce a long list of companies who have chosen to maximise their EV in the short term

I'm sure you could, but I doubt any of them or their actions would have any relevance to poker tournament staking.

Jesus.  

[titaniumbean]

Wow dan really?

Never seen a minus ev thread?

He's being polite I assume.

[DMorgan]

Wow dan really?

Never seen a minus ev thread?

People putting their mates in DTD tournaments @1.4 and the requests that were laughed out the door but got some sympathy buyers obv not included.