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Author Topic: Main Event Hand  (Read 6842 times)
AlexMartin
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« Reply #30 on: July 18, 2012, 06:17:47 PM »

At the time I thought betting the river would be horrible, quite a few people wanna bet but I just cant find any merit in it, anyone have any decent pro's for river b/f?

I know this is going off tangent a bit, but after the hand I got to thinking, what would I have done on an ACE river Cheesy

we cant be bluffed, we set our showdown price, we extract from some heros and the odd random AXs squeeze that likely checks back.

I disagree that anyone in this hand can or will reasonably expect either of the other players to be bluffing enough on this board run to hero worse


im just playing devils adv. also the counter-arguments are better/more applicable here.

 personally its a no-brainer 4b; if the button is sqzing 4V hes gonna go waaaay bigger to prevent a domino effect 5way.
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pleno1
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« Reply #31 on: July 19, 2012, 11:50:08 AM »

With reflection I think we should b/f flop 100% getting value from the guys on between with either axcc kinda hand or flush draws. It's me so maybe thu make a bad peek with gutter or qx.
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Worst playcalling I have ever seen. Bunch of  fucking jokers . Run the bloody ball. 18 rushes all game? You have to be kidding me. Fuck off lol
Boba Fett
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« Reply #32 on: July 19, 2012, 06:11:47 PM »

What kind of sizing are we looking at on a 4bet?
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AlexMartin
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« Reply #33 on: July 19, 2012, 06:13:33 PM »

2200ish
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Boba Fett
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« Reply #34 on: July 19, 2012, 06:59:53 PM »

I figured as much, I really think we get folds an absurdly small amount of the time if we 4bet and I think we're in tons of awkward spots postflop if the 3bettor peels, which I think is very likely with his full 3betting range possibly including KK+

I think its pretty important to keep pots small in these spots early in the main as there is just gonna be so many better spots throughout the tournament.  Which is why I think its fine to just peel the 3bet and play fit or fold post.
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« Reply #35 on: July 20, 2012, 10:01:25 AM »

Peeling pre is obviously fine and very standard normally. Against a fish which his 3-bet sizing suggests he is, I might be tempted to do something unconventional and click it real small. Makes the two good players less likely to call because the action has been re-opened. Hopefully also serves to 'domesticate' the initial 3-bettor and have him play face-up against us (i.e only 5-bet aces and play straight-forwardly post-flop.) Just to reiterate tho peeling is fine and going five-way isn't the end of the world.

River is an easy check-fold. I would say we have the best hand very rarely and can never get called by worse. I expect him to have Aces full or quads most of the time.

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pleno1
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« Reply #36 on: August 09, 2014, 09:34:35 AM »

Randomly looking at some thought processes but very interesting general hand reading by all itt.

Not sure how nobody has said the guy v likely has ak and we should shove to fold chops out.

Btw agree with Sam about click/folding pre to isolate ourselves hu with the weaker player.
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Worst playcalling I have ever seen. Bunch of  fucking jokers . Run the bloody ball. 18 rushes all game? You have to be kidding me. Fuck off lol
lucky_scrote
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« Reply #37 on: August 09, 2014, 11:42:33 AM »

Have the hands been revealed yet?

Annoying that because of his raise size and the fact this has been seen a few times before we can't nail his range down specifically at this point. You say he's been playing ok up to this point so it seems very unlikely he has AJ. AQs seems a bit of a budget 3bet here but I can imagine in 2012 people would do this. Maybe he's just really strong and isn't really aware of correct sizing and this is why I am not sure you can happily 4bet pre. Earlier posters said have just automatically assumed that he can't be really strong because of the sizing but I think this is possibly wrong.

This is all assuming that the guy is confirmed not clueless but his flop bet should be really strong. AK would still be a bad cbet but I'm not going to rule that out. BTN should be c-betting AA and QQ (or if he somehow has AQ) or tripling off to try and get people to fold AQ/33 (gl with that in WSOP ME 2012).

Think now that there is only one combo of AA and QQ it's a simple call. If he has any rogue queens in his range then we can't rule out bluffs too because in theory he shouldn't have any single queens in his range. I'd be fully expecting him to check back AK here as it just seems way too thin given he's cbet the flop 5 way and AJ should be in the muck from the 4 people he's cbet into.

Call, don't think raising is necessary at all since he so rarely has AK and his line is either dumb, has quads or he's making a complete stab in the dark bluff.

BTW This hand is over 2 years old now so you can kindly reveal Cheesy.
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George2Loose
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« Reply #38 on: August 09, 2014, 12:22:41 PM »

Dave folded
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lucky_scrote
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« Reply #39 on: August 09, 2014, 01:38:39 PM »

What a fish
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pleno1
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« Reply #40 on: August 09, 2014, 02:17:14 PM »

Yeh really unsure how folding was an option tbh call>jam>fold imo
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Worst playcalling I have ever seen. Bunch of  fucking jokers . Run the bloody ball. 18 rushes all game? You have to be kidding me. Fuck off lol
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« Reply #41 on: August 10, 2014, 03:04:06 AM »

Wow this is a long time ago, yeh I remember this hand, and I remember the players too.

A few interesting things about this hand, firstly the other player in the hand by the river was John Depa, who IV since gotten good pals with, he's a really really good player and especially strong at live poker.

Preflop I really like the sound of 4betting to fold now, makes a lot of logical sense, not because I think we get action from the BTN with a range we crush (I don't think that at all actually) but we could freeze two v good players out of the pot and might even just take it down there which is pretty nice given how venerable our hand is from a playability angle - and ofc technically AK is one of the best "bluffing hands" for purely blocker value reasons, usually however the fact that 1) AK is too strong to fold and 2) you get jammed on wider these days makes this not the case generally. However if there was ever a situation where that WOULD be the perfect environment/situation for that to be the case then it's level one of the main event :-)

I know why I'd have flatted 2years ago and can't blame myself.

I dunno how there is any option but to call the flop as played?

Onto the river, whereas I get the point about jamming we have to remember that this is level 1 of the main event, a ten day tournament and were 95minutes in, there is little to no chance that jamming is +$EV given that just being in this tournament with 150bb gives you so much equity, if there is even a 5% chance he has AQ, AA or QQ then it's throwing money in the air by jamming I'm sure.

With this is mind I did fold, I didn't see a chance I was beating any value bets, although obviously could chop with a decent chunk of it, I also thought there was a decent chance John had an A or a Q ( Xs) and felt strongly the guy wasn't bluffing... So I folded as couldn't make a reasonable case for anything else...I didn't even consider jamming and wouldn't today I don't think.

Here's something interesting about this hand, I asked John about the hand later and he confessed he had Ax ... He folded behind me....

He said when he folded he thought my hand was 95%AK and 5% AJ.
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SuuPRlim
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« Reply #42 on: August 10, 2014, 03:07:55 AM »

I don't know if I actually had a read the guy wasn't bluffing, or the fact John hero folded AK after has hindered my remembering, but assuming I don't have that read are we saying I should be calling, even for 1/2 my chips at this point?
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lucky_scrote
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« Reply #43 on: August 10, 2014, 03:11:33 AM »

Three guys in pot, I assume guy on BTN isn't John. If so I'm confused.

I'd fully expect most people 2nd to act bet out a queen here since we expect him to check back so often. Results orientation the BTN bet this time but whatever.
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« Reply #44 on: August 14, 2014, 01:15:41 PM »

Bunch of different ways on how to play this hand and not a huge amount of difference between them, small enough that our image and playing style and feel on our opponents affects the optimal decision more than anything else, so in a sense 'everyone's right' here.

Having said that, I would tend to 4b/fold preflop (villains usually straightforward enough to 5b AA and sometimes KK, fold their underpairs, unless they're calling for implied odds in which case we just bet/fold most flops). Flop I also like b/f but c/c probably fine too. When villain asks us how much we've got, I feel like he puts us on a hand and not the other guy who's missed a flush draw, so is trying to get us to fold, so I would call. But wouldn't criticize c/c or b/f either.
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