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Author Topic: Asking to see a players hand, is it bad form??  (Read 12000 times)
robbiebox
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« Reply #60 on: August 06, 2012, 06:43:06 PM »

If I get called then I'll show.

If I call then I wait for opp to show/fold. No showing until their hand is confirmed mucked/dead/shown.
If I show and have a winner I'll never ask to see opponents cards.

Simple.

Whenever I've done this, I get told things like....
"but I told you I had A high, why did you slowroll me with your 2nd pair?"
and
"you what mate? I've told you what I've got just show your hand first......."


Then im made out to be a bad guy for waiting to let them do whatever they want with their hand, I've even said "its up to you, muck or show, I don't mind..."

And they think im playing mind games.


Totally agree with this.

Clearly remember at Blackpool of being accused of slow rolling when I waited for him to turn his cards after he said you win, I just replied "it wasn't me slow -rolling I turned my cards over straight away when it was my turn, it was you slowrolling". He didnt get it and it got a little bit ugly from him. I couldnt care less to be honest as I felt I was spot on.

Had this at Stoke yesterday and the guy says "only got a Q" and shows just the Q,  I feel obliged to turn over my pair to win as he was a decent guy, but really wanted to see what he had gone to the river with ion that hand. Would anybody wait and ask to see the other card Huh?
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robbiebox
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« Reply #61 on: August 06, 2012, 06:45:08 PM »

So annoying when you call a river bet, opponent mucks so you dont get to see but you have to show your hand to claim the pot?,!

Surely if they muck then you should be able to too. Yes i know the collusion arguments and chip passing possibilities etc. but meh whatever.

Totally agree with this also. Rule should be changed that you dont have to show if oppo mucks.

I might just muck my cards next time in this position. What would the dealer do ? Where would the chips go ? Aslast man standing Im sure they would have to give them to me.
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dreenie
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« Reply #62 on: August 06, 2012, 06:48:46 PM »

if someone wants to see my hand then abso fine I'll just show them it cos 99% of the time if someone is asking then they aren't going to be advanced enough to properly process the information they'll get.

If anything me knowing that they have this info and having a pretty good idea they'll mis-use it is more of a disadvantage to them than an advantage so if they wanna do that to themselves they are more than welcome.

Your just too good Lildave
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« Reply #63 on: August 06, 2012, 06:48:50 PM »

So annoying when you call a river bet, opponent mucks so you dont get to see but you have to show your hand to claim the pot?,!

Surely if they muck then you should be able to too. Yes i know the collusion arguments and chip passing possibilities etc. but meh whatever.

Totally agree with this also. Rule should be changed that you dont have to show if oppo mucks.

I might just muck my cards next time in this position. What would the dealer do ? Where would the chips go ? Aslast man standing Im sure they would have to give them to me.


If both players are allowed not to show you end up with chip passing allegations. That's the trouble
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« Reply #64 on: August 06, 2012, 06:55:10 PM »

So annoying when you call a river bet, opponent mucks so you dont get to see but you have to show your hand to claim the pot?,!

Surely if they muck then you should be able to too. Yes i know the collusion arguments and chip passing possibilities etc. but meh whatever.

Totally agree with this also. Rule should be changed that you dont have to show if oppo mucks.

I might just muck my cards next time in this position. What would the dealer do ? Where would the chips go ? Aslast man standing Im sure they would have to give them to me.



Paging Dik9 and CF......


Surely chips goes to person who mucked last
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Cf
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« Reply #65 on: August 06, 2012, 07:32:40 PM »

Yeah, of course they do.

In fact, quite a few rule sets allow you to not show. Don't pokerstars/wsop work that way?
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dik9
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« Reply #66 on: August 06, 2012, 07:39:51 PM »

Sorry, at work at the moment so will have to be brief.

It depends what rules you use.

Genting as a group should be using TDA rules, which now state;

13: Contested Showdown / Playing the Board
All hole cards must be shown to win a contested showdown even if playing the board.

14: Uncontested Showdown
In a non all-in showdown, when all opponent(s) cards have been mucked without being
revealed, the last live hand wins
. Opponents who muck at showdown without revealing their
hands also lose the right to ask to see the winning hand.

15: Asking to See a Hand
Except where house policy provides an express right to see a hand, asking to see a hand is
a privilege granted at TD’s discretion to protect the integrity of the game (suspicion of invalid
hand, collusion, etc). This privilege is not to be abused.

Therefore if someone open folds on the river to me, there is no way I am showing or expect anyone to show unless collusion is suspected.
(with regards to DTD's ruling, I thought they used TDA rules too???)

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« Reply #67 on: August 06, 2012, 08:24:25 PM »

Caro and Cookes rule explains it more clearly.

Years ago instead of "call" it was usual for the player to say "I'll see you", meaning calling to see the hand, the game has evolved since however.

9.08 REQUESTS TO SEE A CALLED HAND.

Players shall not be entitled to see a called hand except in cases where there is a reasonable suspicion of collusion, in which case the floorperson shall be called over for examination of the called hand. This is contrary to the traditional rule. However the traditional rule, which was designed to prevent collusion, has not served its original purpose. Asking to see called hands slows down the game, causes resentment and impedes action. The right to see a called hand is limited to situations where a floorperson is present for the request. The purpose of this rule is to protect against collusion, not to satisfy a player’s curiosity or get a read on a player’s style of play, or worst of all, to intentionally irritate a player. Abuse of this rule is very bad for poker as it kills action and causes resentment. There is no right to see a called losing hand under any circumstances in head’s up play.
The order of showdown shall be followed, if a player reveals a winning hand outside of the order of showdown any right to request a hand to be shown shall be forfeited.

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« Reply #68 on: August 06, 2012, 08:28:49 PM »

That is fascinating. Thanks for that
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« Reply #69 on: August 06, 2012, 08:31:45 PM »

Excellent explanation by RW.
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« Reply #70 on: August 06, 2012, 09:15:29 PM »

Thank you Richard. Sure am gonna show my hand next time my opponent mucks without showing. Presume that's ok in cash games too?
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« Reply #71 on: August 06, 2012, 10:01:59 PM »

More so in cash, but check your venues rules before claiming the high ground Smiley
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« Reply #72 on: August 07, 2012, 03:49:54 PM »

tilts me pretty hard when people ask to see my hand, especially when its a guy who probably won't even use that information profitably in any way against me. Its just rude imo
Did I ask to see your hand before. But definatly all of the above will have been correct.

I don't remember it if you did sir.


Also, the most annoying thing is when you call otr and people show you a winning hand and you say 'that's good' then they ask to see your losing hand and what you called with. Could rant all day about this sorta stuff. One of my pet peeves in poker

This is now a rule at Genting casino's where a player can ask to see the losing hand and it will be turned over (ref. Birmingham). THE MOST tilting rule ever imposed.

Personally I think it's terrible form and just do it back out of spite to anyone I see doing it. Completely ruins the etiquette of the game, there's a video on YouTube of bobby belande doing it to Hellmuth, massive argument ensues and PH is forced to show.

Ive also been victim of the "you got it" and still end up losing, however this hasn't swayed my opinion at all, and in all honesty this doesn't happen except in games where people take 3 hours to turn over the nuts at showdown when it's obvious you're making a hero call.
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dik9
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« Reply #73 on: August 07, 2012, 08:14:56 PM »

tilts me pretty hard when people ask to see my hand, especially when its a guy who probably won't even use that information profitably in any way against me. Its just rude imo
Did I ask to see your hand before. But definatly all of the above will have been correct.

I don't remember it if you did sir.


Also, the most annoying thing is when you call otr and people show you a winning hand and you say 'that's good' then they ask to see your losing hand and what you called with. Could rant all day about this sorta stuff. One of my pet peeves in poker

This is now a rule at Genting casino's where a player can ask to see the losing hand and it will be turned over (ref. Birmingham). THE MOST tilting rule ever imposed.


It certainly shouldn't be??? All gentings should now sing off the same sheet. If you are referring to Star City then a new cardroom manager should be winging his way to you within a couple of weeks
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« Reply #74 on: August 07, 2012, 09:08:28 PM »

tilts me pretty hard when people ask to see my hand, especially when its a guy who probably won't even use that information profitably in any way against me. Its just rude imo
Did I ask to see your hand before. But definatly all of the above will have been correct.

I don't remember it if you did sir.


Also, the most annoying thing is when you call otr and people show you a winning hand and you say 'that's good' then they ask to see your losing hand and what you called with. Could rant all day about this sorta stuff. One of my pet peeves in poker

This is now a rule at Genting casino's where a player can ask to see the losing hand and it will be turned over (ref. Birmingham). THE MOST tilting rule ever imposed.


It certainly shouldn't be??? All gentings should now sing off the same sheet. If you are referring to Star City then a new cardroom manager should be winging his way to you within a couple of weeks

Yeah, happened twice to me at star city, in a tournament. They tried doing it on cash too but I'd made sure my hand was firmly in the muck. It's a joke that cardroom managers allow this tbh.
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