Markup??

[gouty]

I reckon the exes are kinda in there but not really talked about openly. Selling at spot is 100% bad business for any player who can pick 2 cards up off the felt and can fold top pair sometimes.

There was a funny thread a couple of years ago about a player who charged his backers for massages at the table before they all kicked off. Hehe. Anyone remember that?

[titaniumbean]

That was wazz and the thread ran and ran...

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/184/staking-selling-shares-live/ept-san-remo-package-742434/

[jakally]

Selling at spot is 100% bad business for any player who can pick 2 cards up off the felt and can fold top pair sometimes.

Don't agree.

Given that the average return in most comps is 0.9, and in any £100+ comp almost all the field think they can play a bit, it's often v. good business.
Most players rate themselves as better than they actually are.

[Simon Galloway]

It doesn't matter what the markup is for.  If you have added up the cost of your breakfast and massage and decided that comes to 1.6 then ask for 1.6.  If someone decides to pay 1.6 thinking you are worth that for your mad skillz, then it doesn't matter if you are using the money to compensate your breakfast or your time in the tourny.

Obv you can't charge expenses back after the event, the price you sold at is the price you sold at and there ends the backer's liability.

I don't usually have much of an opinion on pricing.. if I don't like the price of the proposition, I pass.  However, I do remember a couple of people trying to sell action in an event whilst in Vegas and asking for markup to help with exes.  That did mildly irritate as if they didn't play the event and stayed in their room, they still have the same expenses anyway.  Silly really, as if they'd just charged the markup 'for skillz' rather than 'for exes' it may well have been the same price, but I wouldn't have batted an eyelid.

One other point (I think MC raised, not often I disagree) along the lines of "sure am putting all that effort in for 1.0 whilst the backer does nothing.  Well, the backer didn't do anything, but his money was put to work?  The backer allowed you to reduce your exposure in that tourny or possibly allowed you the only route available to you to actually play it at all.  

Otherwise, I agree with the general sentiment that most players could ask 1.2 yet should ask 1.0  The reasoning obviously goes beyond economics.  For the minority that really are a good spot at higher markups, no problem with them charging what they want and people deciding to pay it or not.

[jgcblack]

you've been told alot of times, you should sell at 1.0, but you can sell at 1.2.

That's my point, I already know this.  I'm not asking about that!

I'm asking how do 'we' (the community) think its fair to calculate and sell/ buy at what % markup and WHY?


I KNOW I will be a good favorite to sell out 50% at 1.2 if I put it up.

I KNOW 100% I will sell out at 1.0.

I also believe I am good value at both, but clearly haven't got enough live results to prove it.



How about a new question -
What price would someone as good as Merson, Ivey, Openheim and other long term 'cash game winning players' be fair at in a normal $1k fo in Vegas?

AND WHYYYY???

Put a thread up at 1.2 and see if it's sells, that's fine and JBs choice.  I think it's just solid advice about building a reputation, part of community and demonstrating some results. No disrespect to jb, I don't know him - however as one of the most active stakers here I wouldn't buy at 1.2, I might do at spot in a £1000 plus buy in - well probably would at spot to give him a spin. That's just my opinion, like you say Guy if others bought at 1.2 their prerogative.

Just my 2penneth for JB

I have probably in terms of number of live MTT's sold the most over the past year and have tended to package them together and class myself as a slightly above average rec player who has built up an element of trust on here over the past couple of years and have never found it an issue selling but when I have sold have always sold at spot. The past few months have sold for 23 tournaments across 3 packages totalling £7545 and returned £12420 to investors but if and when I sold again would sell a spot.

You have aspirations to be a "pro" and are young enough with not many commitments and hopefully an ever improving skillset that will enable you at some point to do that, so in the meantime if I were you and obv only imho I would sell at spot and if and when you have had a decent bink then maybe you can justify a markup.

For me I always appreciate the backing and as they are always events grouped together that I want to play and could never justify playing circa £2500 of live tournies over a 5-6weeks period am happy to swallow the ex's myself.

Pads is 100% right you could sell at 1.2 but should at 1%

I appreciate both comments, and I think you're both right.  What I'm trying to get across is it doesn't mean to me that I'm trying to say
"I'm better than Eso because I'm putting my thread up at 1.2 and he's up at 1.0"

What I am trying to say, is that I've worked on my game a lot in the last 12 months.. AND I have improved a LOT.  There are some well thought of members of blonde I'm close with in poker terms and I know they would back me up on this.  So what I'm trying to work out, is how does anyone justify x.x markup as a result of
- live results
- online results
- game improvement
- other categories?

If I understand you all correctly, few, if anyone on blonde has enough live tournaments to truly justify any markup on live events alone - statistically.
Alex G has won £xx in x events at y buyin... However, he will be the first to tell you he knows he's run way above 'EV' in live mtt terms, really.

[titaniumbean]

Everyones guessing obv and many are attempting to squeeze as much from the market as possible.

[pleno1]

It shows how ridic the mark up was when it didn't get even close to selling out. Better players sold their Vegas packages for a lot lower price & sold out.

also, putting expenses into packages are lol, nobody asked you to go to Prague to play poker. Free holiday just about then?

who is this even aimed at now?

[Marky147]

How about a new question -
What price would someone as good as Merson, Ivey, Openheim and other long term 'cash game winning players' be fair at in a normal $1k fo in Vegas?

AND WHYYYY???

Yeah, now that we've got everything squared away from the initial debate legoooooooooo

Oh no wait...

[rfgqqabc]

Its all done to jb anyway. Go for a new approach, you offer at 1.0 and anyone who wants to pay more can. Easy game. No ego from you then too

[jgcblack]

How about a new question -
What price would someone as good as Merson, Ivey, Openheim and other long term 'cash game winning players' be fair at in a normal $1k fo in Vegas?

AND WHYYYY???

Yeah, now that we've got everything squared away from the initial debate legoooooooooo

Oh no wait...

Lol, Marky the initial debate has ended in an answer of ... The poker community which is full of a wide range of people from all walks of life and often has a lean toward the mathematically gifted, with regular economics, maths, stats and other broker like-minded people saying that they work out how to sell pieces of themselves and buy pieces of others by...

Everyones guessing obv and many are attempting to squeeze as much from the market as possible.

Wasn't really what I expected tbh.  

So the additional question is trying to gather and gauge the ideas and thoughts behind some well respected cash game players, and clearly gifted poker players... playing a type of poker they have little/ no results in (ignore iveys actual mtt history obv) and to work out why and how those players would be able to charge what %?

[welsh1980]

It's fine to charge to come back over the bridge ??

[jakally]

It's fine to charge to come back over the bridge ??

We would pay for you all to go back....

[welsh1980]

It's fine to charge to come back over the bridge ??

We would pay for you all to go back....

Hmm sorted my %% out nice 1

[jgcblack]

Its all done to jb anyway. Go for a new approach, you offer at 1.0 and anyone who wants to pay more can. Easy game. No ego from you then too

doing my best to take my ego out of it completely anyways atm.  I'm getting there with the personality supression/ adjustment... but I have a 'big' personality to deal with.  (notice didnt say a good one, just an inflated one)

I am wondering whether I go with my 'feeling' or 'brain' on the 1.0 for the heart; or 1.2 for the clear value to me as a player.

Seems a strange and interesting divide in the community to me.

[welsh1980]

Charge what you want .If people fancy a spin they will