Is this bad etiquette?

[Honeybadger]

Kinda think if everyone was the same, friendly, welcoming and classy it would be like an artist having only one colour on his palette.

Like I said, I personally sort of agree with you. I enjoy playing with all sorts of people and used to find it exciting to enter the gangster-filled games back in the day. But I don't think this is the case for most people. Also of course, you can be a real character without being a dick.

Which brings me to...

A guy I've played with who people will know is Lawrence Gosney. This guy intimidated the feck out of me first time I played him and has prob put off many new players, yet what a fabulously interesting guy to have at the table. Friendly and welcoming? Nah, don't think so, but a great colour to have on the palette all the same.

Lawrence is a perfect example of my point. And perhaps it proves that we actually agree with each other. The way Lawrence behaves at a table is brilliant for the game. He is funny as fuck, extremely charismatic, and actually hugely classy in his own unique way. He 'gets it'. Like I said, nothing wrong with characters, and I certainly don't want to make poker staid and clinical. It is just better for all of us if people are helped to learn how to behave in ways that are conducive to the long-term health of the game. And Lawrence is an example of someone who does exactly this... he just does it in a unique way.

You bringing up Lawrence as an example makes me suspect that we actually have the same viewpoint, but are sort of misunderstanding each other...

[WotRTheChances]

Not made a drama out of it.

Why mention $$$ given to keys horses? Obv trying to make him look bad

Yer obvsiously it's a tiny bit of a vent as he's done Keys a favour and is annoyed he hasn't got the $$. I don't think either party has been malicious or not paid/written it up on blonde in a horrible way, they have had many dealings in the past. I feel like it's worse to not pay on an investment than to publicly say 'i've not been paid, does anyone else want to buy this %'. Like I said, it's not a massive issue from what I can see, just a bit of laziness and quick re-selling.

I don't see how you can say he's shown poor etiquette and is trying to make him look bad, when WHAT ARE YOU DOING BRINGING IT UP?!

Obv he's no saint and you both give as good as you get on occasions, but pointing fingers in this way is pretty joke childish.

[Dubai]

The word freerolled is thrown about too much IMO; if for example Flushy said got no cash on me should have it by main, if not sort u after. Do you consider that a freeroll? I mean because obv it isn't as there's close to 0 chance of him disappearing and never paying u $1500. So I think you mean a different word from freeroll, maybe replace it with late payment? Calling one in? Credit? Anything u want other than getting freerolled cos that's complete nonsense IMO and id happily vouch for the $1500 long term and I think Jamie Reeve even vouched and said he would pay for it instantly.

[horseplayer]

what percentage of the average poker players time is taken up with having disputes about who owes who money?

genuinely interested

[MANTIS01]

Yeah Stu you're prob right. You construct your arguments so well I just try and de-construct them. Is that trolling or just good debate?

In case of any doubt my behaviour at the poker table has always been classy and I've never had a cross word with anyone in 11yrs. Just like having the odd bell-end at the table, sorry. I like table thumpers too.

[Dubai]

I rarely see disputes. The people I deal with know the score if i owe them, ie they get it when have it. And same if someone owes me. People don't chase me and I don't chase them, if I'm taking the piss and spraying champagne over the walls whilst owing then its different and likewise if someone owes me but is playing high rollers on their own dough etc then it's a bit much but the money always gets paid back at some point

[cambridgealex]

The word freerolled is thrown about too much IMO; if for example Flushy said got no cash on me should have it by main, if not sort u after. Do you consider that a freeroll? I mean because obv it isn't as there's close to 0 chance of him disappearing and never paying u $1500. So I think you mean a different word from freeroll, maybe replace it with late payment? Calling one in? Credit? Anything u want other than getting freerolled cos that's complete nonsense IMO and id happily vouch for the $1500 long term and I think Jamie Reeve even vouched and said he would pay for it instantly.

You might, but I have no reason to think that. I don't know him, can't remember a single dealing with him in the past (maybe one tiny one a long time ago) and from rumours and clues going about, I have every reason to worry imo. I don't mean to knock a mate of yours, and I'm sure you'll defend his honour in his absence, as I would for my friends, but you know him well, I don't.

[Dubai]

Basically some people get it and some don't. A bit of a generalisation of those that don't is to say young lads newish to gambling who are fortunate enough to never go on the big downswing and need to borrow or ask for assistance from others financially. Id say the longer you are in gambling the more you get it but don't want it turning into an old school v new school argument. I would say poker players from a gambling background get it more than poker players whose first experience of gambling was poker, but that's only my opinion

[Honeybadger]

Yeah Stu you're prob right. You construct your arguments so well I just try and de-construct them. Is that trolling or just good debate?

No that's just your Mantis-stylee!! And I dig it BTW. You troll

[cambridgealex]

I rarely see disputes. The people I deal with know the score if i owe them, ie they get it when have it. And same if someone owes me. People don't chase me and I don't chase them, if I'm taking the piss and spraying champagne over the walls whilst owing then its different and likewise if someone owes me but is playing high rollers on their own dough etc then it's a bit much but the money always gets paid back at some point

Yeh I can see you guys operate in that way, and that's 100% fine and I respect that. I envy you in a way, because I'm not as relaxed as that and things like this worry me. I hate owing people money, and I hate being owed money. I remember when I paid you within minutes a long time ago and you commented on how quick I paid up and I said that I hate owing people money. You quipped "it gets easier with age", which I thought was v funny, but it's just not how I'm built.

There's my really close friends, perhaps 10 people who I happily have a "tab" with, and we never chase debts and just keep on going tabs and they always get paid up if they get big or someone needs the cash for any reason. Anyone outside of that, I feel uncomfortable owing/being owed so would just rather sort things straight away or look for an alternative, and I'm afraid Flushy falls into that category with me, as would most people.

[titaniumbean]

The word freerolled is thrown about too much IMO; if for example Flushy said got no cash on me should have it by main, if not sort u after. Do you consider that a freeroll? I mean because obv it isn't as there's close to 0 chance of him disappearing and never paying u $1500. So I think you mean a different word from freeroll, maybe replace it with late payment? Calling one in? Credit? Anything u want other than getting freerolled cos that's complete nonsense IMO and id happily vouch for the $1500 long term and I think Jamie Reeve even vouched and said he would pay for it instantly.

You might, but I have no reason to think that. I don't know him, can't remember a single dealing with him in the past (maybe one tiny one a long time ago) and from rumours and clues going about, I have every reason to worry imo. I don't mean to knock a mate of yours, and I'm sure you'll defend his honour in his absence, as I would for my friends, but you know him well, I don't.

this this this.


The amount of business you end up doing with people who you actually know pretty much fk all about is insane.

And if people are reticent to speak up when they feel they have been wronged or at least a situation is going a bit tits up then that lack of information can have huge impacts on other people.


edit specifically remembering that you basically know fk all about their financial situation apart from what is said on staking threads etc.

[horseplayer]

thanks Dubai

[Dubai]

The word freerolled is thrown about too much IMO; if for example Flushy said got no cash on me should have it by main, if not sort u after. Do you consider that a freeroll? I mean because obv it isn't as there's close to 0 chance of him disappearing and never paying u $1500. So I think you mean a different word from freeroll, maybe replace it with late payment? Calling one in? Credit? Anything u want other than getting freerolled cos that's complete nonsense IMO and id happily vouch for the $1500 long term and I think Jamie Reeve even vouched and said he would pay for it instantly.

You might, but I have no reason to think that. I don't know him, can't remember a single dealing with him in the past (maybe one tiny one a long time ago) and from rumours and clues going about, I have every reason to worry imo. I don't mean to knock a mate of yours, and I'm sure you'll defend his honour in his absence, as I would for my friends, but you know him well, I don't.

The rumour being he took a stupidly large % of a player in a tough comp whose ev was debatable, no need to have this discussion because this wasnt my opinion, as a favour/punt, ( in fact whose girlfriend was renting flushys second room for a ridiculously low rate at the time)- had the money at time , every intention of paying, player doesn't collect and Vegas does what Vegas does. Player then hounds him for the money and he pays part of it and says will sort rest when can

Flushy is too generous. Has been too generous to me lifewise, too generous in business and loves taking large amounts of bad %s. He ain't a grimmer and would happily give his last money in the world to friends, I've witnessed this

[cambridgealex]

Basically some people get it and some don't. A bit of a generalisation of those that don't is to say young lads newish to gambling who are fortunate enough to never go on the big downswing and need to borrow or ask for assistance from others financially. Id say the longer you are in gambling the more you get it but don't want it turning into an old school v new school argument. I would say poker players from a gambling background get it more than poker players whose first experience of gambling was poker, but that's only my opinion

Feels a bit patronising to say I don't get it because I don't operate on that level. I wouldn't dream of asking someone I didn't know to "put it on the tab, I'll pay you when I have it", over any amount of money, let alone 4 figures. Especially since that person is playing $5k buyins left right and centre and the same time.

Maybe we're getting our wires crossed - read my last post!

I DO envy you for that relaxed way of dealing with things, it's just not me. Not yet anyway, and I feel that you should respect that.

[Dubai]

I didn't want it to come across as patronising as I said its only my opinion and my way of seeing things, and as said earlier I get that other people see things differently and that's fine.

Don't think you should let him have it on tab, just better communication needed between you- I'd have just said listen mate if you ain't got it tell me now so I can resell it, and then u can go two ways- either no momey no percent or say if you think you will have it by time main starts give me a % chance of that, if you ain't got it by then its either cancelled or  il let u have it this one time but don't let me down, it's our first transaction that wouldn't be right etc

Can't believe you can't shift 10% of main with a days notice even with price being 1.5

I could have sold higher than I did easily and could have sold way higher 5 minutes before main starts but I like rewarding regular buyers