DTD Online Club Cash Games

[pleno1]

Brilliant blog.

Some of those innovations - real names and identities for example - are spot on.

The banning of artificial aids - HUD's etc - will soon spread right across the industry, which will benefit 90% of the player base.

Way to go.

i very much doubt that.

[tikay]

Brilliant blog.

Some of those innovations - real names and identities for example - are spot on.

The banning of artificial aids - HUD's etc - will soon spread right across the industry, which will benefit 90% of the player base.

Way to go.

i very much doubt that.

Maybe not. Time will tell.

When an industry is in serious decline, these things need to be considered.

I assume you are aware how much Online poker traffic has delined, worldwide, in the last 12 months? Something needs to be done, and soon.  Burying our heads in the sand won't wash.

[Woodsey]

Brilliant blog.

Some of those innovations - real names and identities for example - are spot on.

The banning of artificial aids - HUD's etc - will soon spread right across the industry, which will benefit 90% of the player base.

Way to go.

I hope so, but do they know if people use them? I suspect not.

I have no idea. On a stand-alone independent site they can easily be detected, but I don't know if that is the case on a network or skin. There are obvious clues which the Operator can see instantly if someone is using one.

Would players really be dumb enough to risk a life ban from DTD? Don't answer that, it was rhetorical

I love the idea of it I really do, but all lack of a clear response of a 'we will catch you, we can detect you using it' tells me they have no way to do it.

Most poker players are inherently greedy, and there is plenty that are willing to circumvent the rules to make some cash. I think that some will have no problem risking the life ban as there is a ton of skins on I poker they can play as well as a ton of other sites. The threat of 'would you risk it' is exactly that, just a threat, DTD are hoping that will put people off doing it, in reality they have no way of knowing so its a bit daft saying it in the first place.

Just to reiterate, I love the idea of it and hope it takes off, but they need to properly state how they can catch people to put them off or it's just an empty threat with zero substance. For the record I will play more if they can show this, so I'm not saying it for the sake of it, DTD can probably gain more business from me and other 'rec fish' if I know who I am playing against and they aren't using all the online tools to relieve me of my cash.

Yours sincerely, an interested punter

[tikay]

Brilliant blog.

Some of those innovations - real names and identities for example - are spot on.

The banning of artificial aids - HUD's etc - will soon spread right across the industry, which will benefit 90% of the player base.

Way to go.

I hope so, but do they know if people use them? I suspect not.

I have no idea. On a stand-alone independent site they can easily be detected, but I don't know if that is the case on a network or skin. There are obvious clues which the Operator can see instantly if someone is using one.

Would players really be dumb enough to risk a life ban from DTD? Don't answer that, it was rhetorical

I love the idea of it I really do, but all lack of a clear response of a 'we will catch you, we can detect you using it' tells me they have no way to do it.

Most poker players are inherently greedy, and there is plenty that are willing to circumvent the rules to make some cash. I think that some will have no problem risking the life ban as there is a ton of skins on I poker they can play as well as a ton of other sites. The threat of 'would you risk it' is exactly that, just a threat, DTD are hoping that will put people off doing it, in reality they have no way of knowing so its a bit daft saying it in the first place.

Just to reiterate, I love the idea of it and hope it takes off, but they need to properly state how they can catch people to put them off or it's just an empty threat with zero substance. For the record I will play more if they can show this, so I'm not saying it for the sake of it, DTD can probably gain more business from me and other 'rec fish' if I know who I am playing against and they aren't using all the online tools to relieve me of my cash.

Yours sincerely, an interested punter

Fine Post.

I don't have any association with i-poker, so I dont know the inside track. However, I can guarantee that IF i-poker wanted to detect the use of HUD's, they could. Any site can. Whether i-poker, or any intermediary between them and the DTD room, are prepared to do those checks, approve of the notion, or pass the info to DTD, is another kettle of fish altogether.

[pleno1]

Brilliant blog.

Some of those innovations - real names and identities for example - are spot on.

The banning of artificial aids - HUD's etc - will soon spread right across the industry, which will benefit 90% of the player base.

Way to go.

i very much doubt that.

Maybe not. Time will tell.

When an industry is in serious decline, these things need to be considered.

I assume you are aware how much Online poker traffic has delined, worldwide, in the last 12 months? Something needs to be done, and soon.  Burying our heads in the sand won't wash.

Yeah Im a little bit up to date, I even write papers on it most weeks  

But most of the "big" sportsbooks who have shareholders will not want to partake in anything for the longterm benefit of the industry because "poker down 31%" is going to scare a lot of shareholders. Even if the decrease will be 31% anyway. They dont want dramatic short term losses hence giving away the entirety of their margin back to the players. One of the famous rooms were giving away 120% rakeback not long ago just to show impressive rake figures around the time of a very possible sell.

The networks care more, but they still want and need the regular players too.

Again, its very very very hard to get games started without regulars who use huds. Amateur players want the empty seat, they dont want to start a new table. And actually inviting them to do so and play HU is a bad idea too.

I would bet my entire net worth on it not happening n 2014. 100% of it not happening n 2015 and a very very large part of it not happening before 2016. Im not sure what you mean by "soon" though, nor am I trying to put my balls on the table and bet, Im just saying that I strongly dont think it will happen.

[pleno1]

Also for any ipoker stuff if things arent happening for any reason, Rob is always willing to get in touch with me. PS and iPoker are best buddies now

[tikay]

Brilliant blog.

Some of those innovations - real names and identities for example - are spot on.

The banning of artificial aids - HUD's etc - will soon spread right across the industry, which will benefit 90% of the player base.

Way to go.

i very much doubt that.

Maybe not. Time will tell.

When an industry is in serious decline, these things need to be considered.

I assume you are aware how much Online poker traffic has delined, worldwide, in the last 12 months? Something needs to be done, and soon.  Burying our heads in the sand won't wash.

Yeah Im a little bit up to date, I even write papers on it most weeks  

But most of the "big" sportsbooks who have shareholders will not want to partake in anything for the longterm benefit of the industry because "poker down 31%" is going to scare a lot of shareholders. Even if the decrease will be 31% anyway. They dont want dramatic short term losses hence giving away the entirety of their margin back to the players. One of the famous rooms were giving away 120% rakeback not long ago just to show impressive rake figures around the time of a very possible sell.

The networks care more, but they still want and need the regular players too.

Again, its very very very hard to get games started without regulars who use huds. Amateur players want the empty seat, they dont want to start a new table. And actually inviting them to do so and play HU is a bad idea too.

I would bet my entire net worth on it not happening n 2014. 100% of it not happening n 2015 and a very very large part of it not happening before 2016. Im not sure what you mean by "soon" though, nor am I trying to put my balls on the table and bet, Im just saying that I strongly dont think it will happen.

I'm not sure why the need for the sarcastic opener there Patrick, am just stating my opinion, which I have the right to do, and I am doing so politely. My question was obviously rhetorical.

"Soon" in industry terms is clearly not weeks or months.

It is to the clear benefit of the major Sportsbooks with Shareholders to have a healthy online poker industry. Poker rooms are the seedcorn of cross-sell. They will not shrink from doing what is necessary to defend the recreational player base.

[pleno1]

yeah, sorry.

But what is short term?

[tikay]

yeah, sorry.

But what is short term?

I have no idea. Sooner rather than later though. I know you dislike the notion, that's natural, you have a self interest, but 2 more years of decline at the current rate and its all over baby, free fall will follow, as sure as God made little apples.

This is why I admire Rob for trying to break the mould. Someone has to.

I don't want my own self interest to get in the way of the debate, or spam next door, but we have never knowingly permitted the likes of HUD's. I've taken more abuse about that than you'll ever imagine. I don't give a damn. I've attended  - and I am sure you have - plenty of "blind testing" sessions, where new and recreational players state their views. They are OVERWHELMINGLY against the idea of the unfair advantage that HUD's give. So if Rooms want to keep recruiting new blood - and they MUST replace those who leave - then they will need to do something soon.

I think the basket of ideas that Rob has proposed is a tremendous innovation. We badly need some innovation.

The very first time I played Online poker - maybe 2001? - I could not grasp the concept of anonymous Online aliases. I still don't, but I'm not as brave, or influential, as Rob.

Remember, if Online Poker shrinks further, your income is seriously at peril.

[ripple11]

100% support Rob in this.

I don't play cash.......but I've signed up and will play.

Just one night a week is all he's asking.......not alot considering what he's done for all of us.

[rfgqqabc]

I think black friday and the segregation of markets has led to quite a lot of these issues. Pokerstars.fr/.es/.it are bigger than many sites. Pokerstars have 4 of the top 10 online companies according to Pokerscout.com plus winamax.fr are in the top 10 too. I don't have access to the same data as you guys but I very much doubt if online poker declines at this rate then it will be gone in two years. Pokerstars are never going to ban huds and consist of a huge part of the online poker world.

Still looking forward to some downtime on these tables. In the mindset of moving cash here there and everywhere at the moment and not holding onto it but hopefully I can provide some late night liquidity. If the photo from my first DTD visit is used it'll be hilarious. The real life details idea makes perfect sense for this room. I've certainly played against people who know my screen name and I don't know there's and vice versa on several sites. I pmed a reg on skype the other day to inform him he was sat on my right on stars.fr, he seemed bemused that I'd done it more than anything else. Signed up tonight. Quite looking forward to some 4 tabling battles across omaha/nlhe to get the games going!

edit: The bumhunting levels online are pretty depressing though.

[smurf]

May I refer back to my post on page one of this thread...no one with the knowledge has said whether or not this is possible or would work...


Surely if these tracking programs that pull up stats on your opponents work on usernames is it not time a poker site was the first to introduce the ability to change your username as often as you wish - it can't be that hard to introduce and then the vast information won't be able to be collected???

You could change it every day if you wished - making stats pointless for those collecting them

[tikay]

May I refer back to my post on page one of this thread...no one with the knowledge has said whether or not this is possible or would work...


Surely if these tracking programs that pull up stats on your opponents work on usernames is it not time a poker site was the first to introduce the ability to change your username as often as you wish - it can't be that hard to introduce and then the vast information won't be able to be collected???

You could change it every day if you wished - making stats pointless for those collecting them

I really don't like the idea of players being able to regularly change their screen names.

One name - preferably real - should be the maximum. We have a right to use our skill against a player who's style we know, but that does not extend to a crib sheet generated by software.

I once observed a player change his screen name 3 times in one evening. That's just wrong. Deliberately mimicking other players names should be avoided, too. Think there were several variants of "RobYong" on DTD at one time via players making out to be him. 

[tikay]

I think black friday and the segregation of markets has led to quite a lot of these issues. Pokerstars.fr/.es/.it are bigger than many sites. Pokerstars have 4 of the top 10 online companies according to Pokerscout.com plus winamax.fr are in the top 10 too. I don't have access to the same data as you guys but I very much doubt if online poker declines at this rate then it will be gone in two years. Pokerstars are never going to ban huds and consist of a huge part of the online poker world.

Still looking forward to some downtime on these tables. In the mindset of moving cash here there and everywhere at the moment and not holding onto it but hopefully I can provide some late night liquidity. If the photo from my first DTD visit is used it'll be hilarious. The real life details idea makes perfect sense for this room. I've certainly played against people who know my screen name and I don't know there's and vice versa on several sites. I pmed a reg on skype the other day to inform him he was sat on my right on stars.fr, he seemed bemused that I'd done it more than anything else. Signed up tonight. Quite looking forward to some 4 tabling battles across omaha/nlhe to get the games going!

edit: The bumhunting levels online are pretty depressing though.

I never suggested it would be "gone in 2 years", but how many years do you think an 11.5% annual decline can be sustained before the nature of the game changes dramatically?

Think of a watering hole in the jungle, which is drying out due to lack of rain. It gets more & more shallow, & the fish (not THOSE fish!) that survive are all fighting for the reduced amount of oxygen in the water. The big fierce animals get to drink the rest, & the cute deer all have to go elsewhere. Gets pretty tough for all of them.

I don't have ANY problem with those who play the game as Pros, & earn a living, in fact quite the opposite, I want them to survive. But we can't just bury our head in the sand & pretend everything is fine & dandy, it is not. And it will be the Pros that feel it keenest. Resisting the idea that there is a problem ain't gonna help. Guys like you, more than anyone else, OUGHT to be concerned, though I can understand why you are in denial. We don't need to do a Mr Wainwaring impression, but if we do nothing & pretend everything is fine, we soon will. 

If the idea that Rob has proposed were to catch on, in other Rooms, it can only be good.

[smurf]

May I refer back to my post on page one of this thread...no one with the knowledge has said whether or not this is possible or would work...


Surely if these tracking programs that pull up stats on your opponents work on usernames is it not time a poker site was the first to introduce the ability to change your username as often as you wish - it can't be that hard to introduce and then the vast information won't be able to be collected???

You could change it every day if you wished - making stats pointless for those collecting them

I really don't like the idea of players being able to regularly change their screen names.

One name - preferably real - should be the maximum. We have a right to use our skill against a player who's style we know, but that does not extend to a crib sheet generated by software.

I once observed a player change his screen name 3 times in one evening. That's just wrong. Deliberately mimicking other players names should be avoided, too. Think there were several variants of "RobYong" on DTD at one time via players making out to be him. 

If software was banned I agree that changing your name would not be required, the idea I was trying to suggest was more a way of trying to prevent your own playing style from being data based while these software programs are openly used and perfectly legal.

Kind of a "if poker sites won't stop it from happening I will chop and change my name so you don't get info on me" type of thing.

I don't think the big sites see it as a problem as I would bet every one of their pros use it...but the more the income declines the more they should look to change.