DTD Online Club Cash Games

[TightEnd]

These begin on Sunday

All the details are at  http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/online-club-cash-games.php

Click to see full-size image.

To play, players need to sign up to the Online Club, and accept the terms

You will notice that the terms are slightly different than a normal online cash game

* Dusk Till Dawn will launch Online Club Cash Games on 1st September 2013, an online extension of our live Club cash game area, under the same management, rules and regulations as our live Club. Online Club Cash Games are targeted at Dusk Till Dawn's members who want their online cash game experience to be as close as possible to Dusk Till Dawn's live cash game experience.

* Simon Trumper, Dusk Till Dawn Club Director, is ultimately responsible for decisions in the Online Cash Game Room

Player Collusion
Should any player be found to have been in communication with another player at the same table, their online account will be locked and live Club membership suspended indefinitely

Player Behaviour
Should any player's behaviour at these tables be deemed unacceptable by Dusk Till Dawn management, their online account will be locked and live Club membership suspended indefinitely

* Should any player be detected to be using Online Poker Tracking software of any make, type or description, their online account will be locked and live Club membership suspended indefinitely

* Games up to £5-5 NLHE and PLO, Max two tables per player

* Players can exchange their DTD points earned from Online Club Cash Games into Sponsorship £££'s to play Live DTD events and DTD Tour events. The player will be sponsored by Dusk Till Dawn. We will also run exclusive promotions for DTD Online Club Cash Game players to earn additional Sponsorship £££'s.

All comments and feedback to DTD Welcome on here

[outragous76]

This is probably a simple question but im going to ask anyway

My understanding of the I poker client is that it auto saves HH's to computer being used. Therefore can data not just be captured and reviewed afterwards (offline in tracking software)? then stats pulled up for the next time you play?

Am I missing something?

[Boba Fett]

What steps are DTD/Ipoker taking to make sure players arent using online tracking software?

[redsimon]

If its to replicate last Saturday night will it indicate which players are pi***d as a fart and who at the table is sleeping?

[TightEnd]

Rob's latest blog has some hard hitting thoughts on the Online Poker landscape, and what the industry can do for the recreational player. These thoughts touch on the introduction of the DTD Online club cash games

http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/blog.php?profile=4&id=438

Again, all thoughts welcome.

[smurf]

Rob's latest blog has some hard hitting thoughts on the Online Poker landscape, and what the industry can do for the recreational player. These thoughts touch on the introduction of the DTD Online club cash games

http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/blog.php?profile=4&id=438

Again, all thoughts welcome.

It may be simple and I don't know if would work but...

Surely if these tracking programs that pull up stats on your opponents work on usernames is it not time a poker site was the first to introduce the ability to change your username as often as you wish - it can't be that hard to introduce and then the vast information won't be able to be collected???




Or do the big sites not want to do anything about it as their sponsored players use it?
Pretty much like the speed camera of today - we all drop down to 40 coming off the M1 to DTD where the average speed cameras are cos we know you will get done -so they work, so why are they not in place on motorways every mile...

[Nit Tendencies]

I don't want to get into a long debate about this because frankly I can't be bothered, but I just want to say that I 100% support the steps Rob and the club are taking to make the game a more accessible environment for recreational players. Bum hunting (to the degree in which it is being executed) and the other etiquette violations which have been commonly accepted by online pros are completely reprehensible in my view, and are contributing to the decay of online poker.

There will be many online pros who share this short-sighted view because it makes their lives more difficult, to the extent that they may have to work a hell of a lot harder on their games to even make a profit, but what they don't realise is that if they continue acting like they do online, forcing the fish out of the game then they will eventually compromise the longevity of the game that we all love (and some of us make a living from). It's up to us as a community of professionals and recreational enthusiasts alike to at least TRY and change this.

I will play these club games as I believe that they are a valiant (if not futile) attempt to try and make online poker a friendlier, less daunting place to play.

[Killerkilsby]

What about people living in the same house playing the same games?

I am not trying to upset anyone with this point, just saying the first thing that pops into my head when I heard this idea.

[Evilpengwinz]

Rob's latest blog has some hard hitting thoughts on the Online Poker landscape, and what the industry can do for the recreational player. These thoughts touch on the introduction of the DTD Online club cash games

http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/blog.php?profile=4&id=438

Again, all thoughts welcome.

I posted the same thing on the Blonde Poker Facebook page link, so for anyone without Facebook:

I completely agree with 1, 2, 3 and 8.

4 - Only thing I completely disagree with that Rob posted is Sharkscope. Anyone can opt out so what's the problem? A far better solution would be for all sites on Sharkscope to make it clear that they're on Sharkscope, and allow people to opt out.

I use PT4 myself, and will continue to do so as long as sites allow, but I'm 50/50 on whether HUDs and tracking software should be allowed. The way that recreational players perceive Poker software is definitely a concern, even though the advantage of having PT4, in my experience, is far less than 99.9% of recreational players assume (Or maybe I'm just a PT4 fish, lol)

5 - Would never work, as how would you stop anyone playing 4 tables on 'Stars, 4 tables on 888, and 4 tables on DTD at the same time?

6 - "How many live cash game tables do you (see) in live cardrooms in the world, that are 6 handed or less?" - The live Poker 6-max argument doesn't take into account that you'd have to pay more dealers than 9-10 handed, and you'd have to fit more tables in which would reduce the capacity of a live venue significantly. Online doesn't have these problems.

7 - Unsure on this one. My initial thought was that deep tables already exist on most sites, and people still prefer to sit on regular 100bb tables instead. I assume the idea here is that the standard cash table on all sites should be 50-200bb? You could also argue that encouraging fish to sit with 200bb instead of 100bb just means they're going to lose their money twice as fast.

[SuuPRlim]

A very interesting blog post from Rob, some good points. I play in the environment he's talked about every day and the comments I'd make would be;

1) Tracking software - completely agree. The tracking sites like pokertableratings/highstakesdb/sharkscope etc are literally pure cancer for the game, all they do is massage the ego's of the winners and humiliate the losers, harsh reality of gambling - some people win and some people lose, if you wanna publisise your results fair enough but having people who you don't know public access to your results should be your decision. And data-mining (where sites collect hand histories and sell them to other players) is criminal, the fact players with the knowledge to use this information have access to it for pretty cheap - is just awful.

I can prolly learn to live with HEM/PokerTracker, I use it myself, but more so because everyone else has it and i'd be behind the times without it, I dont personally have the nkow-how to properly use the stats, but you HAVE to collect the data yourself, being able to buy the data for $50 is just so unfair on the recreational players.

As far as poker bots go it's 100% the sites responisiblity to crack down. Straight up cheating

2) Etiquette and behavior. The grimy and short-sighted behavior of online cash game regs jamie refers too is actually a battle between regs that the recreational players get caught up in, sneaky, underhand moves are being used day in day out and they are so subtle that they are destroying the games without people noticing, what is worse about it is that "good regs" who play in a manner that is beneifical to the games health get directly attacked by the guys who do these things;

i) Buttoning (where you play additional button in a short-handed game) - you might not think this is a big deal but it's actually massive, firstly in terms of a straight up £ considerations its well known that 3handed or HU you have significantly more equity on the BTN than you do in the BB or SB, I read somewhere you gain 0.4bb in equity by doing this 3handed and slightly less HU, if thats $5/$10 and they do it 5 times a day, 20 days a month, 10 months a year that will equate to $4,000 in a yr (4 buyins) that is straight theft from other regs who don't do this. But the knock on effect of this is that now everyone is so raged at being buttoned all the time, now everyone is buttoning everyone is a bid to scrape the equity back. This leads to games breaking earlier, people snap sitting out when recreational players leaving leading them to feel a little cheated. There is even a flaw on PStars where one seat in 6max tables gte's you the btn every time players sit at empty 6max tables wait till it's 3handed and then play BTN/SB/BB/BTN and gain huge amounts. This means less games start and more empty tables with people trying this tactic, making it way less appealing for new players.

ii) Bumhunting - TBH, I don't have a lot of issue with it, game selecting is what it is, I personally like to start games and am happy to play anyone and if someone sits me HU I always play because I think that's how it should be done, I don't sit goodplayers HU and prolly wouldn't join a tough 5handed 6max game, this is all fine and good but when it goes beyond this it becomes a huge problem.
              
                       a) sitting out as soon as a recreational player is busted/sits out. This really is the worst thing ever, lets not cover it up, big games online run around bad players, and when they leave the game will break. But lets show some respect, play a courtesy orbit after he quits, don't sit out when he's busted waiting for him to re-load, or when they sit out, just play, if you want this guys action then give him a game to play in - it's no wonder that people feel cheated/colluded against.
                      b) Table blocking - this is another horrific stroke players pull, it happens very often that there is 4 or 5 handed games running with tough lineups, often another regular won't sit in a tough 5handed game if there is enough other tables running, however the hope for the regs in that 5handed game is that a weaker player will sit down - some regs take it upon themselves if they are in another 4 or 5 handed game to sit in the other game in the 6th seat, but sit out - blocking the table and meaning that if any weaker player were to come along he'd be forced into the game he was in. This means games are always breaking.

3) Colluding + cheating - This surely does go on, but a LOT less than you think, I think people feel like they have been cheated as a result of the severe bumhunting that goes on, cut this out and i think people will think way less goes on. If you think anyone is colluding.cheating the you MUST report it.

4) Multi-Tabling - this one i actually disagree with Rob slightly, I don't think multi-tabling damages the recreational player pool at all, in fact I think it helps it. More regs playing more tables = MORE GAMES to play in, and better games, its obviously true that someone playing 4 tables it going to be tougher to play against than someone playing 14, if you ban the tracking software then it will make 10-16 tables very very difficult and will level the field nicely. If we reduce the amount of tables you can play to 4, it will mean more multi-siting, more games will break because people will be more focused on game-selecting, less people will be able to start games and battling over the recreational action will get even more heated.

5) Min-Max buyins. Agree short-stacking is bad for the game in general, I'd like to see sites implement more buying ranges, 75bb min tables, 100-250bb tables, tables with 200-300bb buyins like on ipoker. As for the short stackers star made all games 50bb min buyins and the short tables are 20-50bb so they cater for the short stackers and the guys who like to play deeper, good solution imo.

The reason that the situation doesn't improve is because there in no incentive to improve it from the players. If you start to behave in the "correct manner" you just put more money into the pockets of those who dont, I personally continue to try behave correctly and there are other regs in my games who do the same. Hopefully more will move to this way of thinking and we will slowly start to build a better online atmosphere, but i think the only way it will be improved is if the SITES themselves take on "ethical T&C's" where they can ban/suspend regular players whose behavior damage the games, that's the only way imo that people will be disuaded from behaving like this. Pokerstars/FTP recently banned a VERY well known high stakes/nosebleed players accounts (Jama-Dharma) on account of his behavior with the buttoning issue, this is a REALLY good step. Get rid of the worst culprits and encourage those who are "bad" to shape up.

I will support Rob's online games and feel confident because of the smaller community that people will behave properly, good idea Rob, and good work making that blog post - it carries a lot of wieght coming from someone in your position and your comments on the issue can only be positive.

[rfgqqabc]

The bans dont work though. People just multiaccount. VPNs and the like allow people to get away with whatever they want. Jared can have new accounts with new locations set up everyday.

I think the changes Rob states would be good for the game. I also think they will never happen. But the DTD live online cash games sound like a lot of fun. How is the tracking software stopped? I wouldn't want to have any tables up from another site where I am using a HUD to affect the usage of these games. A lot of the issues stated are prevented by tournament poker. I think this is the route closer to what Stars will end up going down.

[Boba Fett]

What steps are DTD/Ipoker taking to make sure players arent using online tracking software?

Any answer to this?  Its not that Im considering playing them Im just interested to know what kind of access the DTD/Ipoker software gives to my system that would allow them to actually see that Im using tracking software.

[Fenix35]

great out the box thinking again by dtd, hope this is a success

[pleno1]

I will support this.

[Fenix35]

I think with RE: tracking software like poker tracker/Holdem manager and banning. There needs to be some system in place with warning as your logging in. I'd hate to accidently have my HEM in the background, log in and play and then find I had a life-time ban from the club!