UK General Election 2015

[mulhuzz]

What is it with the Labour lie machine that they keep repeating and regurgitating the story that the biggest party forms the Government?

By convention, the incumbant gets the first attempt at gaining the required 'supply and confidence'....then anyone else gets a crack whilst the incumbents govern as a minority in the meantime.

No lies there....

I know this, so do Labour so why do they continually bleat on about the largest party forming the Govt?  

because it's conventionally true as well, kind of....that's what Clegg did in 2010 by declaring that he wanted to deal with the party with the most votes.

basically the 'rules of recognition' are just constitutional conventions, they aren't really binding, and in the end, pretty much the first to get to supply and confidence levels will be allowed to govern. That's based on the convention that if you don't have a workable government you can form (i.e. one where you'd lose a vote on amendment to Queens' speech) then you're not really supposed to stand in the way of another group which could sustain such a vote. It wouldn't be considered 'cricket'.

They are also (the rules of recognition) potentially contradictory. mostly in a very small sample size we've gone with this principle of continuance. Most other democracies go with plurality (largest  party gets the first punt). It's clear that with hung parliaments likely to be more and more frequent, some of that convention needs to make its way onto the statue book. (or, better still, we abandon FPTP, in favour of STV, but nevermind...)


edit: basically, the way things currently are there could be one or more potential coalitions which could govern post election, and nobody really knows which should get the first crack. So making your claim now loud and often, as labour are doing, is politically expedient.

[Woodsey]

What is it with the Labour lie machine that they keep repeating and regurgitating the story that the biggest party forms the Government?

By convention, the incumbant gets the first attempt at gaining the required 'supply and confidence'....then anyone else gets a crack whilst the incumbents govern as a minority in the meantime.

No lies there....

I know this, so do Labour so why do they continually bleat on about the largest party forming the Govt? 

To be fair Mulhuzz briefly bleated the same thing before he googled and edited his post and changed it to incumbent lol 

[aaron1867]

I am not sure why it would show Ed is not in control of Labour because he has come out with the statement about SNP? I am not disagreeing, but I am not sure why this particular shows this? I don't think he has ever been in control really, but this to me makes little difference. Plus it seems that people was persisting to potentially throw their vote if they got into bed with SNP, maybe that's why he has made it clear about SNP.

It's quite amazing, can you actually believe it's 6 weeks until the election? It still seems months away & there are no dates for the TV debates yet.

[mulhuzz]

What is it with the Labour lie machine that they keep repeating and regurgitating the story that the biggest party forms the Government?

By convention, the incumbant gets the first attempt at gaining the required 'supply and confidence'....then anyone else gets a crack whilst the incumbents govern as a minority in the meantime.

No lies there....

I know this, so do Labour so why do they continually bleat on about the largest party forming the Govt? 

To be fair Mulhuzz briefly bleated the same thing before he googled and edited his post and changed it to incumbent lol 

I actually edited to give a more nuanced view. The real answer is nobody knows. See the longer answer I gave above.

[AndrewT]

The convention of 'largest party gets first crack' would be tested if the Tories got the most seats, but a Tory/UKIP/UUP coalition wouldn't have enough MPs to get a majority, but Labour/Lib Dem did.

Given recent history, a Tory/Lib Dem coalition wouldn't happen, so there'd no point dicking about for the sake of convention and Nick Clegg would just delete David Cameron's number from his phone and go straight to getting jiggy with Miliband.

[Woodsey]

What is it with the Labour lie machine that they keep repeating and regurgitating the story that the biggest party forms the Government?

By convention, the incumbant gets the first attempt at gaining the required 'supply and confidence'....then anyone else gets a crack whilst the incumbents govern as a minority in the meantime.

No lies there....

I know this, so do Labour so why do they continually bleat on about the largest party forming the Govt?  

To be fair Mulhuzz briefly bleated the same thing before he googled and edited his post and changed it to incumbent lol  

I actually edited to give a more nuanced view. The real answer is nobody knows. See the longer answer I gave above.

Nuanced view lol. No you didn't, it was obvious you randomly posted what you thought was true but changed it when you realised you were wrong. I couldn't be bothered saying anything at the time, but there is nothing nuanced about the difference between 'most votes' which is what you actually said, and 'incumbent' But spin it as you wish....

[Kmac84]

I am not sure why it would show Ed is not in control of Labour because he has come out with the statement about SNP? I am not disagreeing, but I am not sure why this particular shows this? I don't think he has ever been in control really, but this to me makes little difference. Plus it seems that people was persisting to potentially throw their vote if they got into bed with SNP, maybe that's why he has made it clear about SNP.

It's quite amazing, can you actually believe it's 6 weeks until the election? It still seems months away & there are no dates for the TV debates yet.

For me Milliband has been backed into a corner by the PLP and the likes of Alan Johnson. 

I know for a fact that informal talks have already taken place about the SNP propping up Labour in a supply and confidence arrangement.  The SNP have never at any time invited talk of a coalition.  The only thing they have ruled out is propping up the Tories. 

The problem is the right wing press in England, who love bombed Scotland last year are outraged that our tiny country should be able to wield any realy power after May 7th.   

The SNP propping up any sort of Labour administration in either a formal coalition would be a result for the common man and decency imo. 

I believe the SNP have many, many faults but as a party they provide the most political balance. 

[redsimon]

I am not sure why it would show Ed is not in control of Labour because he has come out with the statement about SNP? I am not disagreeing, but I am not sure why this particular shows this? I don't think he has ever been in control really, but this to me makes little difference. Plus it seems that people was persisting to potentially throw their vote if they got into bed with SNP, maybe that's why he has made it clear about SNP.

It's quite amazing, can you actually believe it's 6 weeks until the election? It still seems months away & there are no dates for the TV debates yet.

For me Milliband has been backed into a corner by the PLP and the likes of Alan Johnson.  

I know for a fact that informal talks have already taken place about the SNP propping up Labour in a supply and confidence arrangement.  The SNP have never at any time invited talk of a coalition.  The only thing they have ruled out is propping up the Tories.  

The problem is the right wing press in England, who love bombed Scotland last year are outraged that our tiny country should be able to wield any realy power after May 7th.  

The SNP propping up any sort of Labour administration in either a formal coalition would be a result for the common man and decency imo.  

I believe the SNP have many, many faults but as a party they provide the most political balance.  

Thought you wanted a Tory victory other day. Make your mind up!

[Kmac84]

I am not sure why it would show Ed is not in control of Labour because he has come out with the statement about SNP? I am not disagreeing, but I am not sure why this particular shows this? I don't think he has ever been in control really, but this to me makes little difference. Plus it seems that people was persisting to potentially throw their vote if they got into bed with SNP, maybe that's why he has made it clear about SNP.

It's quite amazing, can you actually believe it's 6 weeks until the election? It still seems months away & there are no dates for the TV debates yet.

For me Milliband has been backed into a corner by the PLP and the likes of Alan Johnson.  

I know for a fact that informal talks have already taken place about the SNP propping up Labour in a supply and confidence arrangement.  The SNP have never at any time invited talk of a coalition.  The only thing they have ruled out is propping up the Tories.  

The problem is the right wing press in England, who love bombed Scotland last year are outraged that our tiny country should be able to wield any realy power after May 7th.  

The SNP propping up any sort of Labour administration in either a formal coalition would be a result for the common man and decency imo.  

I believe the SNP have many, many faults but as a party they provide the most political balance.  

Thought you wanted a Tory victory other day. Make your mind up!

Did I say that? 

[redsimon]

The SNP isn't particularly bothered about getting ministers or being in an official coalition. Their price for not bringing down a Labour minority government will be another referendum.

Very much this, It has never been the position of the SNP to want to enter coalition, All today shows to me is Red Ed who has steadfastly refused to make such a statement till now is not n control of his party. 

It feels wrong given the hostility I have towards the Tories but I think I'd prefer to see themget another term over this Labour party.  Labour are finished in Scotland, they may scrape 10 seats this time around but unless the SNP royally fuck it up we won't have to worry about them being a threat at Holyrood.  I'd like to see "yes" voters get out the SNP bubble though and keep them on their toes by making sure a vast number of people from other backgrounds/parties are elected. 

[Kmac84]

Yep. still don't see what that has to do with my earlier comment tonight. 

[aaron1867]

David Cameron hasn't backed down regarding the debates and has agreed to a 7 way debate on ITV. I can't remember how the last ones played out, but will there be advertisement throughout?

[Kmac84]

That's just the way elections work in the UK says Jim. 

But in 2010 when he was Scottish Secretary stated that "Gordon Brown had the constitutional and moral right to try and form a coalition"  But Labour weren't the biggest party. 

I'm confused by Jim. 

[TightEnd]

Click to see full-size image.

[TightEnd]

Alex Salmond predicts a "vote by vote arrangement" between a minority Labour government and the SNP  is the most likely outcome of the election.

Scotland's former first minister said his successor as SNP leader, Nicola Sturgeon, would lead the negotiations.

Mr Salmond also said he wanted the SNP to form a "progressive coalition" with Plaid Cymru and the Greens.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-32007514